VIEW cluster as icon, also available for controls and indicators ...

[manu.NET]

Hello,

The idea of viewing cluster constants as icons is a very good idea.

It would be very usefull to extand the idea to the controls and indicators.

I have to handle with big configuration clusters which take more than a window ... My need is to be able to iconify inner clusters in order to had a userfriendly view on my controls and indicators.

My real need is to be abble to view clusters controls and indicators in a TreeView way ... with the ability to expand / collapse some parts,

in order to highlight some specific parts. (The expand / collapse configuration should be keep in memory for each control/indicator instance)

This idea exists perhaps ...

Manu.

[X.]

By "iconify" you mean collapsing a sub-cluster into an icon-sized object?

I am not sure how that would help setting up a front panel, since you could explode back the cluster to its maximum size (assuming that it is set to autosize, which would appear to be the mandatory default, for the "shrinking" aspect to work as well). I mean, that does not sound like a very user-friendly type of UI to me...

But I may totally misunderstand what you are suggesting.

Regarding the treeview aspect (which sounds different than what I just described), what would be a tree view of an array? An array of clusters? Any other control with a little bit more flesh than a number or a string?

At some point, you've got to work on your UI and hide the gory details under the hood! 🙂

[manu.NET]

Hello X.,

The "cluster control and indicator iconfy" feature is interesting only for "non visible front panels" of course ! (SubVis)

The goal of the idea is to show very quickly the calling interface of a subvi ... a way to arrange the front panels according to it's connector !

When you have big clusters you can hide a part of the cluster by shrinking them.

Doing so, you will hide the cluster structure.

The idea is to be able to show the main cluster structure without all details. 

Manu.

[X.]

All right, we're getting somewhere. So it's not  a UI idea. Scratch that.

You have large clusters on your subVI FP, which do not even fit on your screen (it happened to me) so you want to shrink them so that, say, you can put the error cluster at the bottom while still being able to see all the other controls/indicators, because that's how it appears on the connector pane?

I usually don't bother to open the FP of a subVI when I want to connect something to its icon in a calling VI BD. The floating help window tells me what the type each item on the connector pane is (I mean that it expands any cluster in all its components in a very explanatory way, as you are asking for). In fact, I have learned to not really care where the controls/indicators on my subVIs are located. I think it has already been argued by others elsewhere on the forum recently that in fact, when you do not plan to open the FP of a subVI, you should be capable to ignore it altogether (FP-less subVIs). Basically connect the TERMINALS from the BD directly to the conpane. In which case you would have what you want, right away!

[Alexander_Sobolev]

Huge clusters of settings or options are very common in my projects, they pass through several utlility subVIs and cover all FrontPanel. How do you test or modify them?

Besides, see the P.Blume's LabVIEW style book: the subVI front panel should be arranged like its connector pane.

Huge clusters do not allow it - they have to be shrinked.

Tree-style view of clusters is a more difficult modification, but very desirable!

[X.]

@Alex Sobolev: I am playing the devil's advocate (you know who the devil is!). But seriously, passing huge clusters from VIs to VIs? The devil would argue that you have what you need already in LV: It's called a class object and it takes no space at all on the FP (except of course on the class subVIs. but you've got to pay for your use of a clustausorus somewhere, somehow).I still don't see how a tree view will accommodate arrays or pictures, or who knows what else beyond mere scalar or strings. I mean, you would get no better than what the context Help window gives you:

What MAY work for your purpose is a way to have scrollbars in cluster controls so that you could shrink the container yet retain the possibility to explore its content from corner to corner?

[elset191]

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@X wrote:

What MAY work for your purpose is a way to have scrollbars in cluster controls so that you could shrink the container yet retain the possibility to explore its content from corner to corner?

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Scroll Bar for Clusters

[Darin.K]

Another request along these lines:

http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW-Idea-Exchange/Allow-clusters-to-have-quot-pages-quot/idi-p/1481862

Personally, I like using DVRs in this situation. I like the unbundle/bundle syntax of the In Place Element structure, and the icon for DVR is tidy on all of the SubVIs.

[X.]

Another possibility is to use variants for your subVis controls/indicators (I am not sure why I suggested classes I know nothing about, because that is much more work). You then just cast them back to the proper (typedef?) cluster in your diagram to access its components. It won't give you a quick overview of your cluster (unless you use a probe), but at least will clean up your FP...

[SteenSchmidt]

It will be a huge performance penalty to cast back and forth between variants and clusters. Neither variants nor classes allow runtime insertion of values when debugging, as clusters do.

There is a need for clusters, we just need a better graphical representation of them so they don't fill the entire FP nor "explode" when modified.

Cheers,

Steen

[dthor]

If your clusters are getting too big for the front panels (and they don't even need to be seen by the end user), then you should start moving towards classes and OOP. A class icon is nice and tidy on the FP.