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LabVIEW and SCADA

I have been using LabView and the National Instruments platform for several years as a SCADA system development platform. The company I am working for first headed down this path due to its existing investment in LabView. While I understand some of the comments above about graphics indicators and so forth, I do not believe this to be the greatest features of a SCADA system. The best features of today's SCADA systems are access to information and program intelligence that can summarize the state of an entire system.

We have also had many clients who have been locked into proprietary platforms and/or network protocols. LabView and NI has stuck with open protocols. Early on we were able to sell our clients on LabView using TCP/IP protocols which they, we and everyone else knew were not going anywhere. We were also able to provide very customized systems with little development time.

LabView and NI were also "with the curve" in providing new capabilities in hardware and software.

Just my opinion.

TommyH
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By the way there were big talk about the problems with cursors in XY. It is quite interesting problem. I think you will be interested in this... This is a part of bioreactor SCADA problem...
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Thanks all for comments.

I made a quick look on the DSC module, and I can see that it is doing very good inhancment to LabVIEW to be able to do a SCADA functions except two things:
First poroblem: "THE NEED OF MANY SCRRENS IN SCADA INTERFACE".
Last SCADA project I did was about 30+ screens (That is small one for many..), How can I do "screens" with LabVIEW ?
It seems that I only have two options:
A- "Tab control" .. which is a one object, So it's very bad to put all your controls and indicators on the top of it all the time
B- SubVIs that run programmarically .. may better than the "Tab" but DO you like such a thing?

Second poroblem: "Code .. Code .. Code"
In large projects, the code will be very "SPAGETTI" and very hard to debug and follow, Formul Node? may be it's a good option here.
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Ayman Mohammad Metwally
Automation Engineer
Egypt - Cairo
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I have done a SCADA system with the "B" method you are referring to. Each susbsystem (screen) is another VI with a master VI that controls which screen (panel) is open, on top, etc. Also, with several subVIs, memory, thread/VI (panel) priority and code is much more managable. In my application (which was done in version 5.1) all panels are left open so that they can be accessed easily across TCP/IP network with web browser and incorporated LabView web server.

Hope that's helpful.

TommyH
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Thanks all for great replies (and sorry for TommyH for my late reply!)

Actually I'm back here in this thread because I moved to another company and we purchased DSC module, I tried it my self and it really did great job to make  LabView do most of the standard SCADA packages do. But still there are some problems.

Pluses of DSC module:

1- I can define Tags (configure Tags) and link it to OPC servers eaisly.

2- I can define alarms

3- Trend seems OK (I didn't try it)

4- Tags monitoring is a great RunTime tool

Minuses of DSC module:

1- Only Value-alams type is supported (No ROC or deviation alarms)

2- Graphical objects are too limited (I know that Symbol Factory is there, but they are only a static images that can't be animated)

3- Animation types are not as other SCADA packages.

4- I can't enter a formula instead of a Tag name to animate an object

5- There is no obvious method to create multiple screens and navigate between them (Please correct me if I'm wrong),

6- "HMI Wiazrd" is great, But the bad thing is that it generates its code in teh block diagram, If I have 30 object in my Front Panel and use HMI Wizard, I think that my Block Diagram would be really a spagetti code.

I really can't see any good reason for displaying this code generated (Note: it can't be edited) ?!

I think that it would be nice to let the user (LabView programmer) choose wither to view the generated code or not.

 

Message Edited by Ayman_Metwally on 12-27-2005 03:43 AM

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Ayman Mohammad Metwally
Automation Engineer
Egypt - Cairo
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Minuses of DSC module:

1- Only Value-alams type is supported (No ROC or deviation alarms)

2- Graphical objects are too limited (I know that Symbol Factory is there, but they are only a static images that can't be animated)

3- Animation types are not as other SCADA packages.

4- I can't enter a formula instead of a Tag name to animate an object

5- There is no obvious method to create multiple screens and navigate between them (Please correct me if I'm wrong),

6- "HMI Wiazrd" is great, But the bad thing is that it generates its code in teh block diagram, If I have 30 object in my Front Panel and use HMI Wizard, I think that my Block Diagram would be really a spagetti code.


LV is not a specialized HMI or SCADA application and the DSC module doesn't make it one. It adds some capabalities, but you will need to write the code (and the "screens") yourself. It's the same with animation - LV doesn't currently handle dynamic interfaces very well. With some playing around you can do animation, and some of it can even be pretty good. Search for "animation" in the example finder to see more. You can also place animated gifs for some "static" animation. You can also use the picture control to do some "flowing" animation, but those all require some playing around with LV.
 
It looks like you can delete the code that the wizard creates (you have to right click and unlock it first), because the DS address is already put into the control by the wizard. That should clear up your diagram.
 
And regarding the alarms - maybe the new version of the DSC module will add more options. You can find the documentation on the site.

___________________
Try to take over the world!
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Thanks tst for your reply.

You are right:


LV is not a specialized HMI or SCADA application and the DSC module doesn't make it one


That's absoulutly my openion, But many customers (and consultants!) fail to understand this. They want thier application done using LabView wither it's suitable for it or not.

 


 

Message Edited by Ayman_Metwally on 12-27-2005 06:32 AM

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Ayman Mohammad Metwally
Automation Engineer
Egypt - Cairo
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       That is a problem through out the programming industry, where the client (whether an inhouse one, or an outhouse one (sorry!)) wants it done one specific platform, with a specific language, whatever, whether it is the right tool or not. I had a client, a fairly large, techincally sophisticated one, where I was continually fighting the battle to have them continue using LabVIEW as their primary test development environment. They had a large investment in LabVIEW, a number of inhouse programmers, as well as us outside consultants, but thought that another platform, VB, would be better. Their reasoning was that there are 100's of thousands of VB programmers and considerably fewer LabVIEW ones. I agreed with this, but pointed out that the language was only part of the problem. That LabVIEW, since its inception, has had tools to "do measurements" and that most LabVIEW programmers had some experience with "doing measurements", where VB programmers that did measurement type applications were probably a larger minority of the VB programmers as a whole.

As described in the previous posts, LabVIEW really isn't a SCADA "package" as is Lookout, InTouch, iFix, etc., even with the addition of the DSC, but much of the missing parts can be done in LabVIEW with a bit more work. Where this hybrid really shines is when trying to mix the traditional SCADA tasks with some that are well supported by the other SCADA packages, or the traditional hardware found in a SCADA system. I'm currently putting a proof of concept together for a prospective customer, who has specified LabVIEW, that will (hopefully) end up being a hybrid, with the HMI talking to a PLC and thermal chamber, as well as some DAQ hardware, etc.

Good Luck in your new company,

 

P.M.

Putnam
Certified LabVIEW Developer

Senior Test Engineer North Shore Technology, Inc.
Currently using LV 2012-LabVIEW 2018, RT8.5


LabVIEW Champion



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Thanks LV_Pro for your reply .. and your nice wish.

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Ayman Mohammad Metwally
Automation Engineer
Egypt - Cairo
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Hello all,

I woudl like to "chime in" here since I am using LabView (yes, with add-on modules, control, Inet, etc.) for a SCADA application for several facilities.  I think it is important to consider all the strengths of your development environment when choosing LabView or others.  When I considered LabView to others I had to consider the other AddOns that those systems would require to do some things that LabView can do (very easily) "out-of-the-box" - such as datasockets, http server, etc.  Another consideration for me was the eventuality or capabilitty of doing more sophisticated data measurements in later versions.

In short, it's been my experience that some of quality or cutting edge development rrequires "pulling teeth".  It's a question of how many and which ones.  I have found LabView to be very efficient at getting the "core" of the system running.  Some things, yes, require add ons, workk arounds, etc.  But it's nice when you can get a skeletom of a brand new system up in a few days or so.

Thanks for letting me "chime in " here.

TommyHelter

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