Frustrating Threads

[K C]

Just a thought….

I do not know why nowadays many new LV users try to use LV without any training and/or reading. On the other hand, do we just see the ones with the questions and not the (hopefully many) others that try to solve the problems without asking first.

I see the same thing happening in my company. This year we introduced a new product in our range. It is partly compatible with previous devices (so not completely new for our engineers). I wrote an 80-page manual. I asked several engineers to review the manual before release.

Still, now they use the device, I get questions that are clearly explained in the manual.

At such a moment I want to shout RTFM, but instead of that I listen to the questions and I answer them.

Is it because nowadays ‘everybody’ has access to the internet or is it something else ? Most of the people that are helping here grew up without the internet. Maybe that is why ‘we’ (age above 40-50?) try to solve the problems ourselves or with local help and discussion.

Kees

[Intaris]

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@K C wrote:

I do not know why nowadays many new LV users try to use LV without any training and/or reading. On the other hand, do we just see the ones with the questions and not the (hopefully many) others that try to solve the problems without asking first.

Kees

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I know why.

It's because NI sells LabVIEW as not requiring any programming experience and then leaves us LV professionals to clean up the resulting mess.  This is the reason why I'm asking myself recently if the balance of power is being correctly addressed on these forums or whether we're being taken for a ride since NI is clearly making most money from the "no experience" customers with our help.

Shane

[LV_Pro]

I will say that the "didn't read the manual" phenomena is pretty standard with many engineers, even those over 40. 😉  Of course when so many of the manuals have proven to be essentially worthless (not yours or those I have written ) it contributes to the problem. But as intaris says, I have had a problem over many years of prospective customers being led to believe that LabVIEW is "so easy even a caveman can use it!" (hey I got permission from my son-in-law, who is both a caveman and works for that insurance company!)

[Ben]

I suggest we take this discusion in two different directions.

1)

What can NI do to help the contributors?

2)

What can NI do to help the questioners?

For #1 I would really like the post mechanism to include a "how to ask a proper question" as well as a decent FAQ. This document should clearly explain what we often post about being volunteers and expecting work on their part.

Ben

[smercurio_fc]

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@Intaris wrote:

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@K C wrote:

I do not know why nowadays many new LV users try to use LV without any training and/or reading. On the other hand, do we just see the ones with the questions and not the (hopefully many) others that try to solve the problems without asking first.

Kees

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I know why.

It's because NI sells LabVIEW as not requiring any programming experience and then leaves us LV professionals to clean up the resulting mess.  This is the reason why I'm asking myself recently if the balance of power is being correctly addressed on these forums or whether we're being taken for a ride since NI is clearly making most money from the "no experience" customers with our help.

Shane

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You are not the only one asking yourself that question...

[oyester]

There was a time when I wanted to know what "on we" meant, but I didn't know how to spell it. Eventually, my daughter, who had studied French, told me it was "ennui". Once I knew where to look, I could take care of the rest myself.

Just dumping everything you know to a Help resource or an FAQ will not be enough. If I am going to use it, I will need some help separating the nugget that I need from the huge steaming pile of knowledge it is buried in. And think about how frustrating it is when you need help and  you can't even figure out what the right question is.

[Kev1823]

Hi all,

I know it can be frustrating reading through some of the posts on here, especially if the person hasn't made any attempt at solving the problem themselves or if they use broken english in their post, it can be difficult to understand what it is they're asking for.

However, I'm here to stand up for the newbies on this forum. As a recent graduate instrumentation engineer, I don't have the same level of understanding of computing terminology as some of the experienced LV/text-based programmers on here, though LV presents a relatively straight-forward solution to most instrumentation problems (or so NI would have us believe). The problem is that the basic LV tutorials/manuals do not bridge the gap between  complete novices to LV expert (which most of the users on this forum seem to be). Hence, when we ask a question as to how to improve our system, through a lack of understanding rather than lack of effort, we often get belittled by criticising our code, yet they (the odd few members on here) offer very little as to a better method that we (the simpletons) can actually understand or implement.... This is far more frustrating as we are left feeling completely stupid, confused and more often than not without a working solution, rendering this forum (almost) completely useless for the LV novices out there who are genuinely in need of help.

I expect to get completely slated here, but hopefully it might shed some light from the other side of the spectrum. 🙂

Regards,

Kevin

[Intaris]

No slating from me but I will offer a counter-argument:

I dedicate my time to helping others out of a willingness to help in the same way I was helped (I was a noob too).

There are some freeloaders trying to get people to do their work for them.  There are complete noobs who think they're experts on LV or who think LV is "broken" because they've taken a few courses on computer sciences and these are very very frustrating peopel to deal with.

Then you have the genuine noobs.  These we like to help because we create the experts of tomorrow.

It's just that somethines it's really hard to tell the difference between the different groups and finding out you've gifted your time to an ungrateful or impolite person is simply not a nice feeling.

Shane

[K C]

No slating from me either……  Don’t even know what it exactly means.   So much for my English.

I agree with Shane. I do not help much here but helping someone can be rewarding.

Helping someone to get his/her work done without any efforts from the outer side is frustrating.

That someone uses bad English is OK by me. It is the only way I can answer. 

Kees

[Kev1823]

Hi Intaris,

Yes I completely agree with you on that post, some people do take the preverbial mickey out of some of the good natured people on this site, whether for commercial or academic gain, which rightly should not be tolerated. Afterall, I had to do electronic modules using LV as part of my degree but never once asked for external assistance with it. Like you said, there appear to be freeloaders on here who are not willing to put in any amount of effort themselves, but would rather ask for the complete solutions which is also not right.

Hopefully these last few posts might have helped to bring awareness to us 'genuine noobs' out there who do require your help, for which we are eternally grateful.

Kevin