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Fire wire on RT

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Hello all,
 
May I use this kind of boards on RT software?
 
Thanks
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Message 1 of 12
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Carmo

LabVIEW RT has support for OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controllers. Currently NI offers the NI PXI-8252 which works with National Instruments Controllers. Additionally we offer the Compact Vision System with 3 FireWire ports. If you are running an RT Desktop PC, then you may choose from the NI PCI-8252, the NI PCI-8254R, or the NI PCIe-8255R. All hardware is compatible with Vision Acquisition Software for acquiring data from FireWire cameras. Additionally you also have support for external FireWire harddrives.

Hope this helps,

JohannS

 
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Hello JohannS!
 
And can I use a normal fire-wire PCI board? Was this that you mean with "external"?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Best regards
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Message 3 of 12
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Carmo

You may use a regular PCI FireWire board as long as it is OHCI compliant. Most boards that are currently being sold are OHCI compliant.

I mean "external" as in a hard drive that is housed outside the RT machine and connected via FireWire cable.

Hope this helps,

JohannS

 
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Hi JohannS!!

Only for safe reasons (before buy the cameras 🙂 )

In my application I must acquire 12 VGA frames at once in Ascincronous Reset, this must work at 15 Hz (12X15 fps).

In terms of firewire band I will not have problems, because is more than enough, but due to the fact that 12 frames will go out of my cameras at the same time, will the protocol make the data management without problems?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Paulo Carmo

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Carmo

12 cameras transferring data could have the following problems:

1) There is not enough bus power to power all 12 cameras. Most FireWire boards supply a total of 15W (12V DC) power to a camera per FireWire board. Most FireWire cameras require 3-5W of power. That means you should be able to power 3-5 cameras per FireWire board. More than that and the cameras simply won't show up. Please refer to your camera camera documentation to find out exactly how much power each camera consumes.

2) There is not enough DMA contexts to simultaneously acquire from 12 camera. Most OHCI compliant chipsets only allow a user to stream 4 isochronous video channels simultaneously from a single FireWire board. If you attempt to configure more cameras than that, then you will receive insufficent resource error. In this case buy additional FireWire boards and plug 3-4 cameras per board. Please note that there are some FireWire boards (using VIA or Agere chipset) that a user to stream 8 isochronous video channels simultaneously from a single FireWire board. Read the FireWire board documentation for the exact number of ischronous receive DMA contexts available.

3) There is not enough FireWire bandwidth to acquire all the images. On a single 1394a board there is a cumulative bandwidth of 4096 bytes available. Since you are using a 15fps camera, each camera only require 640 bytes of bandwidth. If you attempt to more bandwidth than is availble, you will receive insufficient resource error. That means in this situation you are limited by the number of isochronous receive DMA context available on a single FireWire board. So with a standard 4 channel FireWire board, you will only be using 2560 bytes of the total 4096 bytes per FireWire board.

4) There is not enough PCI bandwidth to transfer data. PCI bandwidth is theoretically limited to 133 MB/s. If you exceed the PCI bandwidth, the you will see distorted images on all or some of the cameras. No errors will be returned. Each 15Hz VGA camera generates about 4.4 MB/s worth of data. So for 12 cameras that is about 53 MB/s. While that is way below maximum bandwidth of PCI, you should consider that network traffic and video traffic will also consume PCI bandwidth. While not absolutely necessary, consider using PCIe FireWire board instead of PCI FireWire boards.

5) FireWire Hubs and repeaters/extenders can cause problems. Many users attempt to user FireWire hubs to plug as many cameras as possible to a system. Some people use repeaters/extenders to attempt to go beyond the recommend 4.5m cable length of FireWire. In some situtions, these hubs and repeaters cause a lot of trouble on the FireWire bus. Most problems are manifested as cameras that don't show up and/or cameras that display distorted images. My recommendation is to attempt direct cable connection between your cameras and the FireWire boards. If you need longer cable lengths, consider using industrial 10m cables or fibre connectors.

Hope this helps,

JohannS
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Hi JohannS!

But can I use a regular FireWire board OHCI compliant in Real-time for desktop?

Thanks in advance, best regards

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Message 7 of 12
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Carmo

You may use a regular OHCI compliant FireWire board. Let us know if your particular FireWire board does not work.

Regards,

JohannS
Message 8 of 12
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Solution
Accepted by Carmo

Hi!!!

 

Until this moment everything is working just fine.

The board is working in my RT.

In my next project i will need to make the acquisition to several cameras. My firewire cameras have not internal memory and the acquisition will be made in frame reset. I'm not expecting problems.

 

Thanks for the help, regards

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Hello,

my name is Jim. At Universitiy we have a problem. We have camera BASLER SCA1400-FC and when i want acquare image in RT, we have this message below.

This message is:
Image acquisition setup:

The specifed image ACQISITION device could not be intialized properly. Can not allocate recource. Error 9999 occurred at can not allocate recource. This error code is undefined. No one has provided a description. For this code, or might have wired. A number that is not an error code to the error code input.
Can You please help us!

Thanks.
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