Phase measurement of Synchros

[Ben]

It would be much easier with the right adapter.

Look closely at the pin-outs for the connections to the sychro and how the channels are mixed.

I think you would at the least need the simultaneous sampling and for 4 synchros, 16 channels of differential input.

So you may be able to get by with single board with simultaneous sampling across all of the channels. If the synchros are going to be moving and you need live updates...

Sorry I can not spend more time with this riddle. My install completed and I have deadlines to meet.

Look at that pin-out in the pdf fore the NI board.

Ben

[Clint1000]

Thanks for getting me this far..

[Ben]

Some more thoughts that I can share.

Using the NI device will simplify the task greatly. If there are problems, it is up to NI to fix it not you.

If you are in a position where reducing costs are high priority and your time is free, then doing it yourself may be an option you have to confront.

Another complicating factor in the approach of using the measured amplitude from each of the winds is that I would suspect the peak amplitude measured from each winding may not be exactly the same. In that case a correction/scale factor will have to be used to get the vector addition to work correctly through the full cycle of the synchro.

What ever you do, try to have fun and please share what you decide is the right way for you in the end.

Take care,

Ben 

[JÞB]

Oh, Ben sir,

Your giving former sailors a bad name!  (kidding  of course)  But I think you meant to link NEETs module 15.

A handy resource while you are teaching the subject as I recall.

[Clint1000]

I will definitely have fun and share..  If I can help someone else that's great..Nationals' Forums are the greatest thing that I've ever had available to me in the work environment...besides the Internet.

One more thing if you have time..Its been awhile since College.  You keep talking about vectors.  I measure each stator ( right now using 6229) and get a RMS ( my case 5.25vac@400hz)  value of S1S2 relative to R1R2.  Lets say my UUT is at zero position.  So R1R2 and S1S2 are in phase. In polar coord that's(5.25 angle 0)..  S2S3 is 120..(5.25 angle 120) out and S1S3 are 240.... (5.25 angle 240 )  right ??  So what do I do w these to get my UUT position..using your method of vectors??

[Ben]

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@Clint1000 wrote:

I will definitely have fun and share..  If I can help someone else that's great..Nationals' Forums are the greatest thing that I've ever had available to me in the work environment...besides the Internet.

One more thing if you have time..Its been awhile since College.  You keep talking about vectors.  I measure each stator ( right now using 6229) and get a RMS ( my case 5.25vac@400hz)  value of S1S2 relative to R1R2.  Lets say my UUT is at zero position.  So R1R2 and S1S2 are in phase. In polar coord that's(5.25 angle 0)..  S2S3 is 120..(5.25 angle 120) out and S1S3 are 240.... (5.25 angle 240 )  right ??  So what do I do w these to get my UUT position..using your method of vectors??

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Use the functions on the Numerics >>> Complex palette to cast your magnitude and angle (in radians) to a complex number (vector) of each stator value. Then just add the complex numbers, and then take the angle of the resulting vector as the angle of the rotor.

Provided the sign of your vectors are correct (reminder, if signal is in phase with rotor signal positive and vise versa for phase 180 out) the math should split out the angle you are looking to measure.

Ben

[Ben]

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@JÞB wrote:

Oh, Ben sir,

Your giving former sailors a bad name!  (kidding  of course)  But I think you meant to link NEETs module 15.

A handy resource while you are teaching the subject as I recall.

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Coming from one of the others here that have worked with synchros, I will take that as a compliment.

Being FTM (Missile Fire Control Technician) we did not stoop to reading the manuals for EETs but we did not hesitate to borrow their spectrum analyzer when ever we had trouble in the first IF stage of our radar receivers.

Ben

[JÞB]

Warning, OT:

Being FTM (Missile Fire Control Technician) we did not stoop to reading the manuals for EETs but we did not hesitate to borrow their spectrum analyzer when ever we had trouble in the first IF stage of our radar receivers.

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I don't know why they made you keep "Borrowing it" us ET's usually just walked up to the Radar, opened the door, shut off the lights, then simply replaces the pentode with the filaments that didn't glow.  (worked more often than you'ld think on a ship with a flat bottom Newport class LST's bounce around a bit and filaments are delicate)

[Ben]

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Spoiler

@JÞB wrote:

Warning, OT:

Being FTM (Missile Fire Control Technician) we did not stoop to reading the manuals for EETs but we did not hesitate to borrow their spectrum analyzer when ever we had trouble in the first IF stage of our radar receivers.

---

I don't know why they made you keep "Borrowing it" us ET's usually just walked up to the Radar, opened the door, shut off the lights, then simply replaces the pentode with the filaments that didn't glow.  (worked more often than you'ld think on a ship with a flat bottom Newport class LST's bounce around a bit and filaments are delicate)

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We were using solid state electronics in the NATO Sea Sparrow Missile System receivers.

These are the same systems that took out the cruise missiles fired from Yemen a couple of months ago. It was an X-band radar and the first IF was so high frequency our best o-scopes did not have a high enough band width. The spectrum analyzer on the other hand did have a wide enough band that we could see the frequency components of the received signal. When working there would be one peak. When the electronics were bad, there were more than one peak in the spectrum.

Funny enough...

We latter learned that if we plugged in a headset to the second IF stage we could hear noise. it was a lot easier to carry a headset up the ladder to the radar deck than a spectrum analyzer!

Ben

[Clint1000]

So I said I would come back w a status report on synchros..It looks like synchros are a career field onto itself.  Moog puts out a "handbook"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi388Gq8trSAhUSdiYKHQ2YD2MQ... that just added to my confusion.  Going into this project I thought synchros were just a simple, single configured device that measured an angle based on the position of its shaft.  After reading what is probably comparable to a grain of sand on the beach on the subject I'm a little..VERY little more educated.  There are Torque synchros include transmitters (CG), differentials (CD) and receivers (CR). Control synchros include transmitters (CG), differentials (CD) control transformers (CT), resolvers (CS), lineartransformers (LT) and the two hybrid units: transolvers  (CSD) and differential resolvers (CDS).  Some of the descriptions sound the same and some sound like they are doing redundant configurations..they hook a synchro up to another synchro then measure S1, S2 and S3 to get the angle.  Why not just take S1, S2 and S3 off the 1st synchro???  To figure the angle of interest you measure S1-S3 and do vector addition.  If the stators are fixed 120 deg out from each other why not just measure one pair..S1>S2 ( or any other ordered pairs) you know S1>S2= V*Sine(theta+240) ( Pg 6 of the Moog Handbook) and solve for theta..why bother w the other 2 pairs??  They're fixed.. Then there is a Resolver !!  I think my problem is beyond the scope of this discussion group but I have to thank everyone that contributed and didn't want to leave my question unanswered.  I have the time I can play w my synchro and come up w a solution that works for me.  Now I see why companies sell synchro cards for $4K!

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