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Clinical Engineering
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11-13-2001 06:04 PM
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Hello all, I'm relatively new to the Labview arena but have just started using it to develop the software for a potential new medical device. I would like to ask some questions regarding the use of Labview to annotate data collected from a serial device.
1) Is Labview simple enough to program so that I can have a master VI which calls one VI for entry of data like patient name, ID number, sex, weight and then another VI which is used to collect the mdeical device data via RS-232? Ultimately I want to store the data from the patient demographics VI along with the data from the data acquisition VI in an Access database for later recall and review.
2) Does Labview have sufficient controls and options to produce printed report
s and/or do data analysis after the fact? I haven't investigated this aspect at all, but thought I'ld ask before I begin scratching my head.
3) Should I consider using Measurement Studio for C++ instead of Labview (we bought NI Developer Suite Professional Edition so I do have access to both)? I assume that I would have more control over the program by developing in C++, but since my programming is quite rusty, I was considering Labview for the interim.
Any thoughts or pointers to tutorials on this type of application would be appreciated.
1) Is Labview simple enough to program so that I can have a master VI which calls one VI for entry of data like patient name, ID number, sex, weight and then another VI which is used to collect the mdeical device data via RS-232? Ultimately I want to store the data from the patient demographics VI along with the data from the data acquisition VI in an Access database for later recall and review.
2) Does Labview have sufficient controls and options to produce printed report
s and/or do data analysis after the fact? I haven't investigated this aspect at all, but thought I'ld ask before I begin scratching my head.
3) Should I consider using Measurement Studio for C++ instead of Labview (we bought NI Developer Suite Professional Edition so I do have access to both)? I assume that I would have more control over the program by developing in C++, but since my programming is quite rusty, I was considering Labview for the interim.
Any thoughts or pointers to tutorials on this type of application would be appreciated.
MichaelAivaliot
Active Participant
11-13-2001 07:06 PM
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Well, it all depends on how "rusty" you are in C++...
If you feel intimidated, and you don't feel you can complete the requirements using C++ in the alocated time, then use LabVIEW. However, LabVIEW, like any language, has a learning curve so you should factor this into your schedule. I don't see any point in starting with LabVIEW then moving to C++. You should stick with the language you start with unless there is a strong reason to switch.
Now, as far as capabilities:
1) and 2) All you say here can be done with the package you have purchased.
3) I don't see how you can have more control in C++, what are you basing this on? What type of control do you require?
Have you taken ANY tutorials or courses? If not, then don't expect miracles
the first few weeks. You will definitly get the components up and running quickly but the clincher is putting it all together. The built-in tutorials and manuals have NO guidance on building a complete application. You have to learn this on your own OR by attending NI courses in-class. Some Alliance member companies offer consulting services where they help you out a day here or there based on your needs at the time.
I've been using LabVIEW exclusively since version 3 which I think is 7 years now. I don't find it limiting or weak, however it took me 3 months to get over a brick wall I had. Back then, online was called a BBS. Nowadays you have a wealth of knowledge via Developer Zone, Info-LabVIEW, 1-800 numbers and other sites... so if you have any problems, they usually are resolves in a few hours...
If you feel intimidated, and you don't feel you can complete the requirements using C++ in the alocated time, then use LabVIEW. However, LabVIEW, like any language, has a learning curve so you should factor this into your schedule. I don't see any point in starting with LabVIEW then moving to C++. You should stick with the language you start with unless there is a strong reason to switch.
Now, as far as capabilities:
1) and 2) All you say here can be done with the package you have purchased.
3) I don't see how you can have more control in C++, what are you basing this on? What type of control do you require?
Have you taken ANY tutorials or courses? If not, then don't expect miracles
the first few weeks. You will definitly get the components up and running quickly but the clincher is putting it all together. The built-in tutorials and manuals have NO guidance on building a complete application. You have to learn this on your own OR by attending NI courses in-class. Some Alliance member companies offer consulting services where they help you out a day here or there based on your needs at the time.
I've been using LabVIEW exclusively since version 3 which I think is 7 years now. I don't find it limiting or weak, however it took me 3 months to get over a brick wall I had. Back then, online was called a BBS. Nowadays you have a wealth of knowledge via Developer Zone, Info-LabVIEW, 1-800 numbers and other sites... so if you have any problems, they usually are resolves in a few hours...
11-13-2001 09:20 PM
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Thanks for the reply Michael...
My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet. I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
Being a new user, the only tutorial I have come across so far is the one in the online help. I suspect there are lots more available, especially in the online examples here on the web.
As for my comment about having more control with C++, I guess I meant more freedom to make the program look a certain way, alb
eit with a longer development cycle. Creating custom buttons, graphs, etc is not what I really was going for, and hence my recommendation that we use Labview (yes, I recommended the product without ever having used it).
As for courses, I have not taken any at this time, but am an excellent self learner. I'll do some more research and look for some tutorials/examples with database and reporting involved. Anything you can recommend would be greatly appreciated - for a new user I have to admit there is more information here online than I expected, and I barely know where to start.
Thanks again...
My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet. I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
Being a new user, the only tutorial I have come across so far is the one in the online help. I suspect there are lots more available, especially in the online examples here on the web.
As for my comment about having more control with C++, I guess I meant more freedom to make the program look a certain way, alb
eit with a longer development cycle. Creating custom buttons, graphs, etc is not what I really was going for, and hence my recommendation that we use Labview (yes, I recommended the product without ever having used it).
As for courses, I have not taken any at this time, but am an excellent self learner. I'll do some more research and look for some tutorials/examples with database and reporting involved. Anything you can recommend would be greatly appreciated - for a new user I have to admit there is more information here online than I expected, and I barely know where to start.
Thanks again...
CraigGraham
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11-14-2001 05:05 AM
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Making the Labview master program and sub programs that it calls for things
like data entry/validation and data acquisition should be fairly simple.
Labview has built in report generation functions; these are apparently quite
reasonable, but I've never used them, preferring instead to stick with
calling external packages such as Word and Origin, as I did before the
report generation functions came along.
The most difficult thing is likely to be the MS Access interface. The way I
do this is to use the MS data access objects in such a way as to be able to
issue SQL queries- my view is SQL is more standard and more worthwhile to
learn. And I think there are examples of how to do this already around on
here for you to search for. In terms of project risk, this is perhaps the
most significant and the thing you should think about first; you may find it
quicker to use the MS data access objects exclusively. You may also find
that the task is easier in Visual C++ simply because the MS documentation is
aimed at Visual Studio developers.
You've not mentioned the possibility of Visual Basic; if I remember rightly,
Measurement Studio is a set of activeX objects that mimic the functionality
of Labview's front panel controls. This means you can just as easily put
them in a Visual Basic program as in a (Visual) C++ program, and VB
development is faster than C++.
So to summarise, I'd start with a Labview VI that puts data into an MS
Access database that you create, and if you're successful the rest should be
relatively easy. The task as a whole is itself quite easy, of course, but as
you say, you have very little Labview experience.
Clinical Engineering wrote in message
news:506500000005000000624D0000-1004225886000@exchange.ni.com...
> Thanks for the reply Michael...
>
> My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with
> some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it
> stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it
> does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet.
> I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my
> inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
like data entry/validation and data acquisition should be fairly simple.
Labview has built in report generation functions; these are apparently quite
reasonable, but I've never used them, preferring instead to stick with
calling external packages such as Word and Origin, as I did before the
report generation functions came along.
The most difficult thing is likely to be the MS Access interface. The way I
do this is to use the MS data access objects in such a way as to be able to
issue SQL queries- my view is SQL is more standard and more worthwhile to
learn. And I think there are examples of how to do this already around on
here for you to search for. In terms of project risk, this is perhaps the
most significant and the thing you should think about first; you may find it
quicker to use the MS data access objects exclusively. You may also find
that the task is easier in Visual C++ simply because the MS documentation is
aimed at Visual Studio developers.
You've not mentioned the possibility of Visual Basic; if I remember rightly,
Measurement Studio is a set of activeX objects that mimic the functionality
of Labview's front panel controls. This means you can just as easily put
them in a Visual Basic program as in a (Visual) C++ program, and VB
development is faster than C++.
So to summarise, I'd start with a Labview VI that puts data into an MS
Access database that you create, and if you're successful the rest should be
relatively easy. The task as a whole is itself quite easy, of course, but as
you say, you have very little Labview experience.
Clinical Engineering
news:506500000005000000624D0000-1004225886000@exchange.ni.com...
> Thanks for the reply Michael...
>
> My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with
> some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it
> stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it
> does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet.
> I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my
> inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
11-14-2001 10:06 AM
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Clinical-
I too am a new user of LabVIEW. I believe that you will need classes
to get going quickly. The help you can get to (outside of a class) is
not what you need to begin working quickly. (I have scoured the NI
website, LV documentation and literature, several dated and current
books, and I read this newsgroup.)
The next best thing to classes appears to be obtaining the Course Kits
for the classes. The cost of the kit can be applied to the cost of a
class, if you go to class within a certain amount of time (I think it
is 60 days). I have made arrangenments to get the Course Kits sent to
me ahead of time for classes I am scheduled for in December.
If the Course Kits live up to their advance billing I may spring for a
couple more kits for classes that I may not get to in the near future.
Part of the beauty of LabVIEW is the reuse of code (VI's). If you
can't find the code to reuse, then you must reinvent the wheel. Part
of the Course Kits is VI's to use, or study, or adapt.
IMHO, being an excellent self-learner does not mean you can't benefit
from as much help as you can lay your hands on. I think I am an
excellent self-learner because I seek out the best sources of
information. Don't be to proud to learn in the "conventiional" way.
Regarding C++: I have seen some hands on seminars on LabWindows,
Measurement Studio (VB & C++) and so on. Being rusty is not good. I
will not myself try any code writing given thatI have access to the
LabVIEW alternative.
Good Luck,
Mike
Clinical Engineering wrote in message news:<506500000005000000624D0000-1004225886000@exchange.ni.com>...
> Thanks for the reply Michael...
>
> My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with
> some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it
> stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it
> does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet.
> I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my
> inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
>
> Being a new user, the only tutorial I have come across so far is the
> one in the online help. I suspect there are lots more available,
> especially in the online examples here on the web.
>
> As for my comment about having more control with C++, I guess I meant
> more freedom to make the program look a certain way, albeit with a
> longer development cycle. Creating custom buttons, graphs, etc is not
> what I really was going for, and hence my recommendation that we use
> Labview (yes, I recommended the product without ever having used it).
>
> As for courses, I have not taken any at this time, but am an excellent
> self learner. I'll do some more research and look for some
> tutorials/examples with database and reporting involved. Anything you
> can recommend would be greatly appreciated - for a new user I have to
> admit there is more information here online than I expected, and I
> barely know where to start.
>
> Thanks again...
I too am a new user of LabVIEW. I believe that you will need classes
to get going quickly. The help you can get to (outside of a class) is
not what you need to begin working quickly. (I have scoured the NI
website, LV documentation and literature, several dated and current
books, and I read this newsgroup.)
The next best thing to classes appears to be obtaining the Course Kits
for the classes. The cost of the kit can be applied to the cost of a
class, if you go to class within a certain amount of time (I think it
is 60 days). I have made arrangenments to get the Course Kits sent to
me ahead of time for classes I am scheduled for in December.
If the Course Kits live up to their advance billing I may spring for a
couple more kits for classes that I may not get to in the near future.
Part of the beauty of LabVIEW is the reuse of code (VI's). If you
can't find the code to reuse, then you must reinvent the wheel. Part
of the Course Kits is VI's to use, or study, or adapt.
IMHO, being an excellent self-learner does not mean you can't benefit
from as much help as you can lay your hands on. I think I am an
excellent self-learner because I seek out the best sources of
information. Don't be to proud to learn in the "conventiional" way.
Regarding C++: I have seen some hands on seminars on LabWindows,
Measurement Studio (VB & C++) and so on. Being rusty is not good. I
will not myself try any code writing given thatI have access to the
LabVIEW alternative.
Good Luck,
Mike
Clinical Engineering
> Thanks for the reply Michael...
>
> My C++ skills are very rusty. In fact I'ld likely want to start with
> some re-education on that side if it is the route I choose. As it
> stands I've been playing with Labview for a couple of hours and it
> does seem quite intuitive. Of course I haven't pushed it too far yet.
> I guess my real concerns with going Labview exclusively is my
> inexperience with the product and not truly knowing what it can do.
>
> Being a new user, the only tutorial I have come across so far is the
> one in the online help. I suspect there are lots more available,
> especially in the online examples here on the web.
>
> As for my comment about having more control with C++, I guess I meant
> more freedom to make the program look a certain way, albeit with a
> longer development cycle. Creating custom buttons, graphs, etc is not
> what I really was going for, and hence my recommendation that we use
> Labview (yes, I recommended the product without ever having used it).
>
> As for courses, I have not taken any at this time, but am an excellent
> self learner. I'll do some more research and look for some
> tutorials/examples with database and reporting involved. Anything you
> can recommend would be greatly appreciated - for a new user I have to
> admit there is more information here online than I expected, and I
> barely know where to start.
>
> Thanks again...
11-14-2001 11:54 AM
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Thanks for the responces...
First off, let me say thanks for the support options this forum offers. Combined with user input and the fact that NI staff monitor the group and have responded to my question leaves little doubt that my choice of Labview as a development platform was a good one.
I have pretty much decided to use Labview exclusively for this project, and will use the Database and Reporting Connectivity toolsets to accomplish my tasks. I did also consider using Measurement Studio for Visual Basic, but as I have no experience with VB, I felt that would be a drawback as well. Same goes for VC++ - my prior C++ experience was with a different compiler environment. For this reason I'll pass on attempting to re-learn
C++ and the new compiler while undertaking this project. I will likely have to customize one of the serial examples to match the device I am using since it appears no special serial driver has been programmed for it (a Microstrain DVRT system). If I'm wrong, please feel free to point me at the right place to obtain it.
Unfortunately this project is being funded with a grant and the research money is all but exhausted as far as acquisitions. Because of this I will have to use the self learning method for the time being, and if funding does become available, I'll see about purchasing the CBT course kit(s).
Thanks again for everyone's help.
First off, let me say thanks for the support options this forum offers. Combined with user input and the fact that NI staff monitor the group and have responded to my question leaves little doubt that my choice of Labview as a development platform was a good one.
I have pretty much decided to use Labview exclusively for this project, and will use the Database and Reporting Connectivity toolsets to accomplish my tasks. I did also consider using Measurement Studio for Visual Basic, but as I have no experience with VB, I felt that would be a drawback as well. Same goes for VC++ - my prior C++ experience was with a different compiler environment. For this reason I'll pass on attempting to re-learn
C++ and the new compiler while undertaking this project. I will likely have to customize one of the serial examples to match the device I am using since it appears no special serial driver has been programmed for it (a Microstrain DVRT system). If I'm wrong, please feel free to point me at the right place to obtain it.
Unfortunately this project is being funded with a grant and the research money is all but exhausted as far as acquisitions. Because of this I will have to use the self learning method for the time being, and if funding does become available, I'll see about purchasing the CBT course kit(s).
Thanks again for everyone's help.
