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Looking for affordable, accurate timing signals

   Our lab fields numerous custom instruments on research aircraft.  Flights last 8 hours or more.  These instruments typically log their computer time, which drifts several seconds over an 8 hour flight.  They often also log aircraft navigation data, which usually has GPS time included.  We would like to improve on the time-keeping, in two related but different ways.  If anyone has suggestions for dealing with either issue, they would be appreciated.
   1) Accurate time stamps.  The programs need to log a time stamp with each data record (typically once a second).  As I said, they often log computer time and a GPS time, but the aircraft nav data may not always be available, and the computer time drifts badly.
   2) Accurate loop timing.  Ideally, we would have a source of 1 pulse-per-second timing that LabVIEW could lock to.  We could route this into NI Daq boards for triggering, and probably even synchronize timed-loops in the software to this signal.  Instruments that integrate signals over 1 second or some similar time interval in particular need to have an accurate clock either to control the integration time or to measure how long they really integrated.
   I'm working on a possible solution based on a Garmin OEM GPS unit.  Assuming you had a GPS signal lock, you would get 1Hz time stamps and a very stable 1pps TTL signal - exactly what we need.  However, inside the aircraft, it is likely that we couldn't get a GPS lock, and we usually can't go mounting an external antenna.  It would be great if these units would continue to give reasonable 1pps signals even after the lock is lost, but so far Garmin hasn't answered my request as to the accuracy of the pulses once they lose lock.  They only spec the accuracy while the unit is locked.
   Ideally, there would exist a small box (that is inexpensive!) the could lock to either WWV or GPS.  Once it obtained a lock for a short period of time, it would use an accurate internal oscillator to continue to put out time stamps over ethernet or serial as well as an accurate TTL pulse at 1 pps.  The experimenter could take this box outside the aircraft and let it obtain a lock, then bring it back in and hook it up to the instrument.  I suppose an eithernet connection with a mechanism for synchronizing the box's timestamp to an NTP server would be a nice feature too, in case you couldn't get WWV or GPS.  In that case, the internal oscillater wouldn't have been sync'ed to anything in particular, so it would have to have reasonable accuracy on its own for the 1pps pulse.
   I've looked at the specs for NI boards, and unfortunately, they aren't encouraging for most of our use cases.  The standard Daq boards don't have good enough specs on timers to supply a 1pps clock for 8 hours that is any better than the computer clock.  There are PXI timing boards that could do it, but they run $3K, which is a bit much.  Also, not all our computers can be PXI crates.  Some of them could use PCI cards, but most are laptops.  A USB, ethernet, or serial solution would be more general.
   Any ideas?

Regards,
   Dave
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David Thomson Original Code Consulting
www.originalcode.com
National Instruments Alliance Program Member
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified Embedded Systems Developer
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There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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This may help.

Not sure.

Ben

Retired Senior Automation Systems Architect with Data Science Automation LabVIEW Champion Knight of NI and Prepper LinkedIn Profile YouTube Channel
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Ben,
   Thanks.  Very nice specs.  A bit steeply priced for what I'm looking for.
   To partially answer my own question, I have since found this:  http://www.endruntechnologies.com/network-time-source.htm  Just over $1K, locks to the CMDA cell phone network, plus maintains a decent precision when it loses lock.

Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------
David Thomson Original Code Consulting
www.originalcode.com
National Instruments Alliance Program Member
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified Embedded Systems Developer
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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We use a Symmetricom 8040C frequency standard in one of our test stations, it's about $4800 (much more than Ben's suggestion). I submitted a plug-and-play driver a while back, located here. Their products tend to be top of the line, but I understand that they sell non-rackmount flavors of the rubidium standard with the X-72 serial interface that my driver was written for.

One of our environmental tests requires a local timing reference that precluded the Symmetricom and our engineer selected a TCXO with very good specs from Greenray Industries, the ZT600. It was good enough to use as a time reference for tests lasting up to a few hours, and the pricing for quantity 25 was less than $300. Maybe they have something that would suffice.
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....
Spoken in hardware: a GPS Unit , a good crystal quarz and a PIC/Atmel/MSP430/[enter fav. controller here]..... RS232 circutry (MAX232..) a Battery and 8 optocoupler outputs, avoiding ground loops ,  Box
The Controller sync to GPS and selfcalibrate the internal timebase (in know the MSP is able to tune the crystal)  Maybe a crystal oven (box with ntc,crystal and resistor)
....
 
$25-40 hardware (plus GPS) plus $ ?000 for development  should be possible
....
Nice projekt for a student looking for a thesis or just a job...
...
There should be HAM-radio projekts around for good timebases 
...
you didn't mention the jitter... and spec the drift
 
But why not use one of your PCs with a cheap USB timerboard as a masterclock? Assuming the drift is known and linear...   A cheap USB-6501 has a 20ppm drift mostly due to the temp coeff. of the (cheap) crystal, together with a digital out tempsensor and a solid state relay for a heater, all in a box @ 60°C  .... or replace the crystal ..... 
 
time to go home ....
 
 
 
Greetings from Germany
Henrik

LV since v3.1

“ground” is a convenient fantasy

'˙˙˙˙uıɐƃɐ lɐıp puɐ °06 ǝuoɥd ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ ǝsɐǝld 'ʎɹɐuıƃɐɯı sı pǝlɐıp ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ɹǝqɯnu ǝɥʇ'


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NI has been working on a PXI timing module that is capable of synchronizing to GPS, 1588, IRIG, or a PPS signal.  They demoed it at NI-Week this year and it sounds like it would fit your application well.  It will have the ability to timestamp inputs as well as generate clocks and triggers that are synchronized to one of the timing sources.  In addition, the board will have a very stable oscillator.  In order to use GPS you just need to connect the antenna directly to the module.  There is no need for an external GPS receiver.  I'm not sure when it is suppose to ship, but you may want to contact your sales rep to see if it is an option.

-Josh
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doesn't the 6608 already support IRIG-B?

Ben

Retired Senior Automation Systems Architect with Data Science Automation LabVIEW Champion Knight of NI and Prepper LinkedIn Profile YouTube Channel
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   Thanks for all the suggestions.
   Joshua - I'll definitely keep an eye out for the board you mention.  It sounds like a great product for the kinds of things we do.  Unfortunately, we can't always use PXI.  A PCI version would be nice, as would a USB.  (Obviously, some functionality would be different - like not having direct access to the PXI timing bus.)

Cheers,
    Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------
David Thomson Original Code Consulting
www.originalcode.com
National Instruments Alliance Program Member
Certified LabVIEW Architect
Certified Embedded Systems Developer
-------------------------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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We have released a scaled down version of the product that I mentioned called the PCI-1588.  It only has the ability to sync to a PPS, or other 1588 devices over ethernet.  You could have several of them distributed about and they will all sync to one another over a normal ethernet subnet.  It also has 3 PFI lines and a RTSI connector for syncing with other NI devices.  It's possible you could use it with an external GPS receiver that outputs a PPS signal.  The PCI-1588 also has the ability to create clocks, triggers, and accurately timestamp events.

https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/model.pci-1588.html

-Josh

 
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