LabVIEW Touch Panel Reliability

[Jaggs]

Hello,

We are looking to develop an Induatrial Controller similar to PLC with a WinCE operating system.  How reliable and practical is this approach?  We want to use Touch Panel module to develop applications and deploy on it.  The I/O will controlled through custom drivers, which will be accessed by touch panel through call library nodes.

any input is appriciated.

[Christian Mergl]

Hi,

I have not much experience in working with the LabVIEW Touchpanel Module, but the few small things I did worked as expected.

That beeing said, I just wanted to tell you that you can also contact your local NI office to lean a TPC for testing.

Christian

[Charlie_P]

Good Morning Jaggs,

You can certainly implement a WinCE-only PLC-like system.  The entry level will be one of our Touch Panel Controllers  (WinCE - TPC-2106 and TPC-2012, XPe - TPC-2512).  These do not have much processing power or many I/O options.

We also offer Panel PCs (PPC-2015 and PPC-2115).  These run Windows XP and are more similar to a PC than a touch panel but they have a built in touch screen.  Though they have the built-in screen, they are not overly rugged.

If you need rugged, look at our new industrial controllers.  We offer these with Windows and Real-Time OSes.

If these offer too much processing power, use too much power, have too large a footprint, or do not offer enough I/O, look into the cRIO.

I do not think that either of these last two (PPC or cRIO) will be the correct solution for your application by themselves since you are interested in the GUI offered by a touch screen.

A very common (and my suggested) approach is to have a cRIO or industrial controller running the code under a Real-Time OS and to use a TPC as the HMI for it.  The Touch Panel can be connected to the cRIO through a network or directly with a ethernet crossover cable.

I recommend speaking with an Applications Engineer before you make your purchase so that we can help ensure that you have the best hardware for this application.  Simply visit www.ni.com/ask to create a Service Request.

[Coq_Rouge]

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AE Charlie wrote:

Good Morning Jaggs,

You can certainly implement a WinCE-only PLC-like system.  The entry level will be one of our Touch Panel Controllers (WinCE - TPC-2106 and TPC-2012, XPe - TPC-2512).  These do not have much processing power or many I/O options.

We also offer Panel PCs (PPC-2015 and PPC-2115).  These run Windows XP and are more similar to a PC than a touch panel but they have a built in touch screen.  Though they have the built-in screen, they are not overly rugged.

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But remember that you have to pay a huge license fee each time ship software without the NI hardware mentioned by AE Charlie. That is if the software is developed by the Labview Touch Panel module. I do not remember the sum but it was almost as much as for a PC Real-Time desktop runtime license. In the RT case you have to pay for the RTOS. But this is not the case with Touch Panel Module. Talk about showstopper, and really stupid license policy. If you don not buy our NI hardware. We will hit you so hard in the wallet, that you change your mind. Besides the NI Touch Panel Controllers is just some OEM versions from a major manufacturer.

[Coq_Rouge]

I can also add that this idiotic license policy, effectively blocks all use of Touch Panel Module, in say medical devices. It is like Microsoft should sell computers, and say. If you buy our OEM computer that we have slapped a Microsoft logo on. You will get the a windows OS very cheap. But if you do not buy our computer you have to pay 730$ extra for the OS

[Jaggs]

Hello Coq,

So you are saying that if we use a 3 party WinCE PC and deploy a Touch Panel EXE on it, there is a huge run-time fee?  We have a Professional Touch Panel verison with us.  Is this not enough to deploy touch panel EXE's for free??

[Coq_Rouge]

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Jaggs wrote:

Hello Coq,

So you are saying that if we use a 3 party WinCE PC and deploy a Touch Panel EXE on it, there is a huge run-time fee?  We have a Professional Touch Panel verison with us.  Is this not enough to deploy touch panel EXE's for free??

---

Yes you have to pay a huge fee or shall we say fine. If you take a look here [link removed] and the Non-NI Touch Panels section. The licence cost about 730$

I quote "Another consideration when using a third-party touch panel is that a LabVIEW Touch Panel Deployment License must be purchased for each deployment of an application developed with the LabVIEW Touch Panel module"

I do not if this is even legal in Europe. I will take this to the Consumers' Advisory Council. As I am quite sure this kind of bundling is not legal. If you do not use an OEM touch panel that NI has slapped a NI sticker on. You have to pay a huge sum extra. 730$ is a unheard sum to pay for cheap plastic bird sticker

Message Edited by Coq Rouge on 11-24-2009 09:19 PM

[PaulG.]

I did a touch panel mechanical manipulator controller years ago. It probably wasn't nearly as sophisticated as your application but I did it on a panel PC running windows embedded with plain vanilla LV 7.11. No special toolkits required. It was rugged, waterproof and the VI was fairly straightforward and worked well as an executable.

[Jaggs]

730$$$$$$ for deployment??  That is insane!

[Brian_K.]

Any particular reason why you prefer WinCE over XPe.  The market seems to be heading towards XPe. 

I ask because if you get a XPe target, then you have a few options.  The way I typically do an XPe application is:

1)  Build the application on my dev machine. (using LabVIEW PDS)

2)  Build an EXE and installer. 

3)  Put it on a USB stick.

4)  Install on XPe touch panel.

XPe is just a trimmed down version of XP.  The one big advantage of the Touch Panel module is that it helps with ensuring that the EXE will work well on the touch panel during mid development.  But then again is you follow good UI design, and don't peg the processor too hard then that is not reallly that big.

I have also done WinCE app as well (and been successful), but once you try XPe you will not go back.