Can't find a font and size that ports between Mac and PC

[rmp]

Hi folks,
OK, so I know that the "application" font could be different between Mac and PC (LV7)... but, why does, say, Arial font look different on the front panels of Mac VIs vs PC VIs. If I use PowerPoint, I see that Arial 14 pt looks the same between Mac and PC. But, in Labview 7, Arial 14 pt on Mac is bigger and darker than on PC. Note that both Mac and PC are using roughly the same screen resolution (Mac screen is 1152x768; PC is 1280x800). I can't seem to find a font and size that port between Mac and PC.
Thanks in advance...

[Megan B.]

Hi rmp,

I think this document on Porting and Localizing LabVIEW VIs will be helpful.  It has a lot of information on fonts and potential problems.  The difference could be explained by the change in resolution or by the fact that you're not using the default font size.

Check out the tutorial and please post if you have further questions,
Megan B.
National Instruments

[rmp]

Hi Megan B.,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I did study that document from NI - so, I know that the default/system/application fonts can be/look different between Mac(OSX) and PC(XP).

But, if I force a text object on a front panel to be a particular font (ie. Arial, Times, etc) and a font size (ie 12, 14 pt) then when I port that vi between Mac and PC (same version of Labview) I would hope that the text would look fairly similar. They don't. They look significantly different in size (mostly horizontally) and "boldness". As I indicated in my first post, this is a bit puzzling since I can port a PowerPoint slide between Mac and PC and the text is virtually identical (that rules out the screen resolutions being different).

Have you tried to port a vi between Mac and PC? If so, are there any fonts that you've seen that port correctly? Here's a simple test.,, on a front panel (either Mac or PC):
 - create some text in any font you want, but force the font to be something specific (I used Arial, Georgia and Times)
 - create a rectangle decoration that fits the text somewhat closely so that you'll be able to tell if the size of the text changes relative to the rectangle
 - port the vi to the other platform (either Mac or PC)
 - see if the text still fits the same way in the rectangle
I think you'll find that it is significantly different. Do the same test using Power Point and you'll see that there is virtually no difference between Mac and PC.

So.... what am I missing. Is LV7 rendering text differently than Power Point? Or, is LV7 using a different font library than PowerPoint? If so, where/what is it?

[Ankita]

Hi,

The document that Megan B pointed out mentions that the Application font, the System font, and the Dialog font map best among different platforms. When you port a VI that contains one of these fonts to another platform, LabVIEW ensures the font maps to something similar on that platform.

If you do not use the defined fonts, the font can change size on the new platform because of the differences in the fonts available and differences in the resolution of the display on the other platform. For example, if you select Geneva or New York on the Macintosh and port the VI to UNIX, LabVIEW cannot find that font name on Windows and substitutes it with Arial. The substituted font may not match the original, and objects may overlap. If you port a VI to Windows and Windows does not recognize the fonts, the new font may display differently.

If you use a defined font on a section of text, avoid changing the size of that text. If you change the font to something other than the default size and then port the VI to a different platform, LabVIEW tries to match the font with the new size, which might be inappropriate depending on the resolution of the screen.

Hope this helps,

Ankita

[rmp]

Hi Ankita,
Thanks much for the reply.

I think I understand the point that you and Megan B are making - that the same fonts might not be on both the Mac and PC; and/or that a certain font size might not be "default" on one platform or the other; and that the System, Application and DIalog fonts are "closest".

But, I think that there are two points that are not yet resolved:
 - (try my experiment): I can select a font (ie Arial, Georgia and Times) that IS AVAILABLE on both the PC and Mac versions of Labview 7 (as indicated in the font pull-down menu), and they look "significantly" different on Mac vs PC. If the problem is that I'm choosing a size that is not supported on both platforms, then how would I find out what sizes for a particular font are supported?
 - Power Point seems to render the fonts identically on both platforms, so I don't see how it can be a screen resolution issue (ie. the two platforms, having different resolutions, are making the fonts look different just because of different pixels/inch horizontally and vertically)

I suspect that the problem is that the two platforms are either using different definitions of the fonts (font libraries?) or different rendering mechanisms. But before I go experimenting with system font libraries I thought it'd be better to see if anyone already has a solution to the question/problem:
Are there ANY fonts and sizes that anyone has seen look the same (in size) on both platforms (see my experiment of making a rectangle around the text)?

[Ankita]

Hi,

Thanks for clarifying the question.

I created a VI with Arial , Georgia and Time New Roman fonts with rectangles around them. This VI when ported to Mac does so substantial differences in size and boldness. You were absolutely correct.

I talked to a  LabVIEW developer about this and we feel that this is something R&D team needs to look at more closely. It is either a bug or something that skipped our notice thus far. Hence I have files a Corrective Action Request for this issue for further investigation. Thanks for your feedback.

As for now, I cannot suggest any other workaround but to try and use system or application fonts and make sure they look similar on both platforms.

Regards,

Ankita

[chilly_charly]

Great !

This is an old problem, and I would be REALLY happy to see it solved.



And while developpers are working on this font portability problem, may be they could also try to solve the accentuated letter conversion problem (é ê à è...) another real pain for a few foreigners ....

[rmp]

Ankita.
Thanks for the help in investigating and resolving this issue. Of course, I would rather have heard that the experiment worked for you, and that I was just missing something simple.

I would guess that this issue is important to anyone that is developing applications that produce "Report Quality" output. In my case, Labview is SO flexible and rich in graphics capability that my data processing applications produce report quality pictures, that I can save as PNG/JPG files to include in published reports or PowerPoint briefs. It has been a real advantage to be able to run the application on Mac and PC given the large population of Mac users in the scientific community. But, as you can now imagine, since I developed the app on the Mac, when I run the app on the PC I don't really get "Report Quality" anymore.

And, of course, it would be very labor intensive to maintain two versions of the app (PC vs Mac). I guess I could sense the OS of the host machine and change the fonts accordingly, but this sounds like an ugly solution.

CC, I suspect that you're right about this being an old problem. Over the past five years I've tried to solve the problem maybe five times. Each time I just gave up, assumed that I was doing something wrong, and just made a separate version for each platform. Do you have a work-around?

[chilly_charly]

rpm wrote : ...CC, I suspect that you're right about this being an old problem. Over the past five years I've tried to solve the problem maybe five times. Each time I just gave up, assumed that I was doing something wrong, and just made a separate version for each platform. Do you have a work-around?


My position is exactly the same. 😞 I couldn't find any simple solution. I remember I wrote once a Mac/PC string converter using a table for all the different characters.


I'm glad that you brought this issue to the front door 😉

[Ben]

Stay focused on those issue already mentioned. At the minimum, just one combo to start, but...

if you can look into LV's built on VI functionality when a user selects a larger system font?

It is real easy to tell what part of LV's GUI is developed in LV (PID Toolkit), and what is not. (Sure I can edit and save as a new name, but I loose upgrades that come down the pike.) I suspect your internal stuff like that follows all of the rules but you end up in a situation were you can only read part of the number or files spec.

Admitedly asking for the moon,

Ben

Message Edited by Ben on 12-08-2005 08:34 PM