MultiSim Database Structure

[Ralf@mibtec]

Hi there,

during working with MultiSim for a few days. I found out (and the support says the same), that MultiSim does not convert the Pin-Nimbers from UltiCAP Libs to the correspondig footprint. Even not if you tell MultiSim wich footprint.

So in effect a complex component with lets say 300 or more Pins like a BGA could not be imported without manual assigning the logcal Pins  to the Pins of the footprint.

This is realy bad with huge UltiCAP Userlibs.

I am searching for a workaorund.

Does any body no the structure (binary) of the UltiCAP and the MultiSIM Database files. If i had this Information i would try to write a small tool to convert the libs automatically.

It is not satisfying that NI has no Solution to that Problem.

For me it seems that they do not care what their Customers have done before using MultiSim. But i think there are a lot of engineers who where using (and are still using MultiCAP) and they all do not want to throw their own libs in the trash. Imagine how many time you spend on your own UserLib (which is aproved, tested and fits exact to your

design-style).

We spend a lot of money in the new software and of course in our Companys Libs.

Unbelievable that there is no easy way to import the UltiCAP libs.

Any comment, any information is very wellcome.

Best Regards

Ralf

[lacy]

I don't know if you have already tried this or not but I think it may be worth a shot. Multism has the ability to load Ulticap schematic files from what I see under the FILE>OPEN drop down box. What you could try is to place these components onto a schematic in Ulticap (they don't have to be wired) and save it. Then open that file with Multisim and save the components to your database.

I don't have Ulticap to try this with so this is just an idea for you to try. It should save all the information about these components including the footprint but like I said this is just a theory that you can try.

This is the only thing I can think of that could help. If your library is very large this could take a while to get them all transferred if it works.

I really hope that this may help as this is all I know about this subject.

Have A Nice Day

[Ralf@mibtec]

Hi Lacy,

thank you for your reply. I started thingking the Forum is dead..

Well i am a newbie to this forum but using Ultiboard from the early beginning (when they started in 1992 in the netherlands).

So your hint was the first thing i tried my self 3 days agoo when installed the new software.

But any way thank you for the reply.

It is clear to me now - and ni's support says the same. MultiSim is not able to convert the given Pin-numbering from an UltiCap Librarys Component.

If you place the Components to a sheet in UltiCap and open this sheet with MultiSim you got just "pictures" with no logical meaning.

And even this "pictures" are not OK. E.g. the positions of the Pin-discriptors are shifted or not viewable.

You can edit this "component" with MS's Component Editor and repair all the shiftings and Signalnames that are unvisible. If you safe it - this Component looks fine in MS.

If you then safe it to yout Userdatabase in MS and place it from there the component has the same optical bugs again.

But the main problem is:

Even if you select the right Ultiboard footprint (that one the Component has in the old UltiCap Library) the Pins a not automatically assigned to the rigth footprint Pins.

E.G. on the AT-Mega 16-16AI (this a processor in 44-Pin QFP Housing) VCC appears correctly on footprint Pin Number 5, 17 and 38.

After the described procedure (transfer to the library, choose the right footprint, and place it again) the numbers vor VCC are: 39, 40 and 41...

The comment from NI: You have to tell MS the Pin-Numbers..

We have CPU in BGA with up to 385Pins. You can imagine that i am not keen on building up my whole lib per hand again. This will take aprox. 2 Weeks or more.

The thing is: i - and as far as i can see some other users too (just look in this forum) got the feeling that they do not realy care about the "old" power users.

We have done 40 Designs a year. Non of them ever simulated. We where interessted in a good running easy (means quick and intuitiv) to use Schematic Capture and Layout Programm as well.

As far as i can see Ultiboard is remaining good - with tendence to get better. But i have a DOS-Version that can automaticaly reroute Components that you have moved!

Non of the Windowsversions could this ever after.

It was sad for us when some years agoo EWB bougth Ultimate Technologie (from the Netherlands). EWB was allways seen as a toy for students and hobbysts.

Then they kicked UltiCAP. That was an Error. This Programm is one the (seldom seen) stable, intuitiv good running tools. Exactly what the Designer needs.

I wish they would make the source free available.

I personnaly do a lot of mixed signal design (for over 15 years now). I "simulate" in my brain not in the computer. And on the other hand: What is to simulate in your designs when you are expierienced? Try to simultate a typical design with 3 or more Processors and some analog circuits..

OK. Enough..

I just thought may be i could find some "veterans) from the UltiCap Times to exchange Libs or build a automatic Converter together.. Something like this.

Best Regards and gretings to you lacy.

Ralf

[Ralf@mibtec]

By the way..

Lacy could you explain me your title: proven active veteran.  

What means that?

Thank you

Ralf

[lacy]

I am not sure how NI assigns the titles, but I would assume that it has to do with the number of posts made or questions answered and the rating of those answers that I give to people.  

Just so you'll know.I do not work for NI, I am an a user, just like you, that has a few years of experience on these products that has volunteered to answer questions on the forum whenever possible and to the limit of my knowledge. By trade I am an Electronics Repair Technician and my expertise is troubleshooting electrical and electronic circuts. This is where I am most suited to make posts. I do make suggestions in other areas if I happen to know of a technique that may help an individual. Granted, that most of the time in theses areas I usally end up suggesting something that has already been tried (like your situation), but I think it would be terrible of me if I didn't at least tell a person my idea requardless. Who knows maybe what I suggest is just what they may be needing.

I am glad to have had the opportunity to meet you and try to help you.

Have A Nice Day

[kittmaster]

Many of us are just regular users.....I used to be a beta tester but have removed myself from that role. You'll find that there are 3 NI moderators that can help and they stop in time to time.

The biggest issue, is they are pass along the issues to engineering and then we must sit and wait and hope that the cries get answered.

The other issue is that it take 6 months to a year to get updates......not sure if that will change now that NI owns it.

The titles in the profile names mean nothing.....its time vs posts vs ratings that determines that.

For the most part everyone tries to pitch in and help.

[Ralf@mibtec]

Hi lacy, hi Kittmaster,

nice to meet you. Funny that a simple answer about the "title" provocates more reply traffic than our main topic.. :-)). So for your interrest: I am 42 and an "old shool" electronic engineer having my own small buisiness. Some people would call me CEO - but i think this is very oversized and does not really fit to the multitask-job you do when serving customers, looking for obsolete parts, troublshooting designs, designing (most liked topic), trying to control the own employees, beeing father.. and so on and so on.

So - if it's not to personal to you - may i ask what you are doing, and where are you from? I find it tremendous exciting to talk to people in the same buisiness (suffering the same Problem [not only NI's Soft.. :-))] and maybe exchange ideas about problems and solutions.

I understand that you where using MS for a long time. Do you do pcb-designs? In what buisiness? We make a series of industrial controlls for stationary gas engines (mostly biogas), a controller for big dredgers so that the tools can be changed automaticaly, some types of small cnc-controllers and so on. It is all "homegrown" stuff that fits to very special market gap. We design the total solution from the shematic to the pcb, from the software to the ruggedized housings..

Ok enough about me tell me about you (if you like). If you like it more personal you may email (mib@mibtec.de) everytime you like.

Best Regards and have fine time.

Ralf

[lacy]

I think it might be better to talk about this off forum as the moderators like to keep it clean(and I really like that too) and any off-topic subject upsets them. I will contact you by e-mail.

Have A Nice Day

[Ralf@mibtec]

Hi lacy,

i agree. But where are the moderators? I posted my 2 questions 4 days agoo. I did not here anything from the moderators or any body else to my topics.

Best regards.

Ralf

[lacy]

The moderators are Tien P., Maxish, Nestor and Garret (not sure if he's a moderator, but he answers questions sometimes). These are the ones that I know about. They are not only moderators for the forum, but have other jobs to do at NI. Nestor, I believe teaches classes on Multisim (my understanding) and also travels on I would assume are either sales meettings or seminars. So, from what I gather, they are fairly busy individuals. They don't always sit here and just read posts on the forum. When they get the time they drop and see if they can be of assistance to any unanswered or unresolved issues.

Myself (I can't speak for other users) I have the time to volunteer to help when I can. I couldn't answer your question because of my lack of knowledge about the subject matter. When I encounter something out of my league, then I leave the question open and at some point in time Nestor, Max, Tien, or Garrett usually comes in and saves the day.

You just have to exercise patience and wait for them. Eventually you will get a response and nine times out ten it is exactly what you are looking for to solve your problem. They are good at that. Very good.

Have A Nice Day