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Coupling between two AI channels

Hi there,

I am using PXI 6259 for acquiring data from two loadcells. I am using differential settings and have to use only one and two loadcells depending on the situation. When both loadcells are connected everything works fine but when I disconnect the second load cell from the DAQ card then and start experimenting with only one load cell i find that both the AI channel which is not connected anymore is following the other AI channel in use. Also in this situation there seems to be a lot more noise in the readings. I would expect the channel not in use to saturate etc. but seeing it follow the other channel exactly is hard to comprehend. Is there an explanation for this situation.

Thanks and Regards,
Viku
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Message 1 of 6
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It is normal and defined as crosstalk:

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/630

With the 2nd channel disconnected are you saying the the readings on the connected channel are noisier?

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"It’s the questions that drive us.”
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Message 2 of 6
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The 6259 uses CMOS multiplexers to switch between input channels; these multiplexers are more or less connected directly to the input terminals of the board. They dominate the specified 100 pF input capacitance of the board, and hold a lot of charge as a result.

On the other hand, the input resistance is very high (> 10 Gohms), and so any charge left on an otherwise unconnected line will determine the voltage on the line. When the multiplexer switches from your connected load cell channel to the unconnected (floating) channel, the charge stored from the first channel remains in the multiplexer circuitry and holds the voltage where it was until a lower impedance is connected and can influence it. This is why the unconnected channel appears to follow the connected one.

I suppose if the board is allow to sit on the unconnected channel for several seconds without switching back and forth the input will saturate, but if it doesn't, it's testimony to the very high input resistance of the board.

I'm not sure I can explain why you're seeing more noise in that situation, though. More information would be needed. What kind of noise? Can you supply plots?

EBL


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Message 3 of 6
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Thankyou very much for your reply. Yes now I understand the why the spurious signal is happening at the disconnected channel (basically the impedance is infinite and does not allow the capacitor to discharge at all and hence......)

For the second part, when the channel is disconnected I start getting more noise in the channel that is connecting. Also the noise seems to depend a lot on the location and environment of the unconnected connector hanging out of the breakout box. For example as soon as I touch it I start seeing a 55Hz noise amplitude in the other connected signal. I was trying to relate it with AC mains noise but could not explain it to myself. Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

regards
viku
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Message 4 of 6
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Well, it certainly sounds like crosstalk to me. On this board (and most other boards with multiplexed front-ends) there are several ways for crosstalk to occur:

1) Capacitive coupling: signals are coupled by capacitance between adjacent wires, either in the cabling or on the board itself. (This could happen on any board - not just ones with multiplexers). Since it's capacitive, it's frequency-dependent, and high frequencies couple much better than low frequencies. Since you're seeing ~55 Hz, this is probably not the mechanism behind your problem.

2) Channel-to-channel settling crosstalk: signals on one channel influence the measurement on the next channel in the scan sequence. When the multiplexer switches from one signal to the next, the signal at the A/D converter does not switch instantaneously from one to the other. Due to limited bandwidth of the amplifier and the A/D converter, and capacitance in the multiplexers, there is a settling time as the signal transitions from one level to the next. At first blush it usually has the shape of an exponential function, though once that part has settled out there's usually slower effects that aren't exponential. Those slower components of the settling curve are often due to thermal transients and dielectric absorption in capacitors. In any case, if the A/D converter samples the signal before it's through settling adequately to the new level, the new signal will carry some residual influence of the previous channel. Since the curve usually decreases monotonically, waiting longer to settle decreases the amount of influence. So one thing to try is to lower the channel-to-channel sample rate within each scan - if that decreases the noise, then your problem is likely related to settling.

3) Track-and-hold feedthrough: this is not as common as the previous effect, but it can happen in some systems. While the A/D converter is busy converting a signal that's being held steady by its track-and-hold, oftentimes the multiplexer switches to the next channel to allow the amplifier and other circuitry time to settle before the next sample is taken. The resulting transient can couple a little of the signal from one channel into the measurement of the -previous- channel since the A/D converter is still working away on the previous channel. One way to test for this effect would be to tie the same signal to two (consecutive) channels instead of one, and scan three channels instead of two. Since the voltage at the A/D converter would be remain the same when the multiplexer switches to the second copy of the signal, there should be no feedthrough on the first conversion of the signal (but there still might be settling from the channel before that). I don't think this is the problem in your case, but it's worth investigating.

Hope this helps,
EBL


Message 5 of 6
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Thank you very much for the detailed reply EBL. Now I understand  crosstalk. a lot better. And I feel that what I was seeing was definitely a cross talk problem. I was using coaxial cables with bnc connectors to connect the AI signals to SCH 68. And I guess the unconnected bnc connector was acting like an antenna picking up the 50Hz signal from a nearby CRT and was getting fed to the connected channel via crosstalk. Now the problem is solved by terminating the unconnected bnc connector with a proper terminator when not using it. Also the CRT is moved further away. So finally I am getting only a tolerable amount of noise in my signal.

Besides all the replies that I got here from the wonderful people out there following documents on ni.com have also helped me in resolving this problem:

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/CE719E5A9409ADCC8625714100033433

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/73CB0FB296814E2286256FFD00028DDF

Once again thank you all very much.

Regards,
Viku.
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Message 6 of 6
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