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database access denied -- for a part I had V9?!

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....granted, it didn't work properly, but at least I could use it.

Chalk this up to what the??? ...number 5,782,568,934...

Part of the reason I decided to install V10 (I swore MultiSim and I were parting company a couple of weeks ago, but V10 looks new and I did pay for it, so...) was to get this very common and very old and time-tested part part to work!  In fact, I wrote a detailed letter in which I briefly mentioned this part.  Along with the response that followed was also attached a .jpg demonstrating to me that this part was in V10 and that it worked.

So what the ??? $@#&*&*(!!! 

Oh, what part you ask?

It's the age old workhorse comparator, the one MultiSim Inc apparently was so clueless as to NOT include in this latest version, or so it appears to me.   (Yeah, I'm furious!  I'm at the ceiling!  I have zero time, and yet once again I am coming to MultiSim Inc in order to do soimething simple with this @%#&# program!!!!!!!!  I'm getting about sick of this stuff already!  This stuff has been going on for years with you people!)

First the part doesn't work.  Now I upgrade and don't even get the @$&&#%^& thing!

And no, I don't want the military version!  I want the one that I had in V9 (preferably one that works this go around), the one that can be found easily, especially in my parts drawer where I have several!  Duh

I want my

LM311 !!!

First you give me a useless one (couldn't handle a simple differentiated square wave input), and now you don't even give me one at all.  What the frig is going on in your heads MultiSim Inc?! 

Hint: This is not a good way to get me to renew my service contract with you people, not a good way to start my vacation where I'd planned on making a decision about this and, also, have a life.  And yes, I did get all your commercials for weeks now.  You want my money so bad, but yet every time I turn around you knife me with stupid #$%^.  Why in the Sam Hill would you deny ME access to an LM311??  I simply cannot fathom it except to say consider the friggin' source: MultiSim Inc.

And no, I don't have to tell you my particulars, because you already know them.  As we speak, a question of mine from this forum (9/06) may be finally getting an answer, besides the answer I gave myself that is.   Now give me my #!$^% 311 back!  Put it and whatever else you ignorantly removed in an email and send it to me immediately!  You are wasting my #@^$ time!!!

...and this was the kinder gentler version...
...and yes, feel free to delete this email once you pull your heads out of your ____ and give me my parts back.

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Message 1 of 9
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It has occurred to me that I may not have been clear about something and that it may have caused confusion, so I'll clarify now.

I bought a service contract last year.  As part of that service contract I was to automatically receive the V10 upgrade when it became available.

At no time during the last year did I ever consider that I had any help with V9 (and it's supposedly the teachers' Educational version), but MultiSim did (in their eyes) make good on the contract, and I was sent the "upgrade," V10, in the mail some weeks ago.

In the V9 MultiSim, I had several LM311's.  I chose to use the LM311N component for a design but, of course, it didn't work.  I tried various tweaks and tests (a common activity w/MultiSim I've found) and concluded that MultiSim was wrong. 

Meanwhile, since receiving the "upgrade" to V10 (which I hadn't installed yet), I'd been receiving phone calls and emails reminding me that my service contract was about to expire.  It's about leverage you see.  First you get the "upgrade," and then, if you want the next one, you extend your service contract.

Well I'm rather disgusted with MultiSim, so I went to the website and I wrote a letter using the Contact option some days ago.  Happily I can say I got a response from what I'd consider to be a kind individual who, among other things, addressed my latest problem with MultiSim: the LM311.  Specifically, in the response, I was sent proof (via a .jpg) that the LM311 in the new V10 (that I hadn't installed yet -- the explanation was the subject of my letter) worked, was told that the error had been found to be the model from the manufacturer and that I only need install V10 and I'd have a working LM311 as well as the rest of V10's benefits.  Moreover, I was assured that V10 was totally new for the most part, that NI was at the helm now, and it'd be worth it to renew my service contract.  Frankly, this made me feel good about MultiSim V10.

So I did it.  I installed V10, my "upgrade" that I'd paid for the year prior.  Right off the bat I started to construct my LM311N circuit to see the proof for myself and was fully expecting it to work this time, for, after all, I'd actually built the circuit on the bench and knew it worked, so MultiSim V10 would just be catching up to me.

That's the situation that led to starting this thread.  I have been ripped off!  Plus, I'm betting many parts that I used to have in my V9 Educator's Edition are no longer available to me in this V10 "upgrade" I've been sent.

This matter must be rectified or NI/MultiSim has lost this customer, as I certainly will not renew my service contract as things presently stand.  Then again, perhaps that is their intention.  (This is, of course, assuming that they intended to rip me off, that they really understood what they were doing.)  After all, every time I use the program I turn up a new bug.  Perhaps they are thinking "better let this one go as this is just one person in a sea of money that we can get from the educational community, and you can't please them all."

 

              
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Message 2 of 9
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Hi, the LM311 was not included in the Education edition because of a wrong tag in the Multisim database, it made it available only to the Professional editions. After being notified from this and other threads in the discussion forums, R&D has fix this and the next update will change this behaviour and therefore make it available in the Education edition.

In the meantime, attached you will find the PRZ file and a Multisim 10 file. Double-click on the PRZ file to include the component in your user database, and you can use the Multisim 10 file to see how it behaves. I took a test circuit from the TI datasheet to test it and it seems to be working fine.

For any person using a version older than v10, you can create a custom component with this spice code:

* LM311 VOLTAGE COMPARATOR
* CONNECTIONS:   NON-INVERTING INPUT
*                | INVERTING INPUT
*                | | POSITIVE POWER SUPPLY
*                | | | NEGATIVE POWER SUPPLY
*                | | | | OPEN COLLECTOR OUTPUT
*                | | | | | OUTPUT GROUND
*                | | | | | |
.SUBCKT LM311     1 2 3 4 5 6
  F1    9  3 V1 1
  IEE   3  7 DC 100.0E-6
  VI1  21  1 DC .45
  VI2  22  2 DC .45
  Q1    9 21  7 QIN
  Q2    8 22  7 QIN
  Q3    9  8  4 QMO
  Q4    8  8  4 QMI
.MODEL QIN PNP(IS=800.0E-18 BF=500)
.MODEL QMI NPN(IS=800.0E-18 BF=1002)
.MODEL QMO NPN(IS=800.0E-18 BF=1000 CJC=1E-15 TR=102.5E-9)
  E1   10  6  9  4  1
  V1   10 11 DC 0
  Q5    5 11  6 QOC
.MODEL QOC NPN(IS=800.0E-18 BF=103.5E3 CJC=1E-15 TF=11.60E-12 TR=48.19E-9)
  DP    4  3 DX
  RP    3  4 6.667E3
.MODEL DX  D(IS=800.0E-18)
.ENDS

That spice code should fix it, if you have questions about how to create a custom component, follow the tutorial named "Creating a Custom Component in NI Multisim":

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3173

 

Nestor
Message 3 of 9
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"After being notified from this and other threads in the discussion forums,"

I looked but did not find, so I posted.  Specifically, I searched on "LM311" and "lm311" just in case the search function was case sensitive.

I must have missed it.  What other MultiSim forum was it in as of
05-26-2007 09:56 AM?


 
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Message 4 of 9
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"
Proven Active Veteran


nestor

Reply 3 of 4

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Hi, the LM311 was not included in the Education edition because of a wrong tag in the Multisim database, it made it available only to the Professional editions.


"

What is the difference between "Proven Active Veteran" and "Nestor _______, National Instruments, Electronics Workbench Group?"

I know the answer.  It would appear you are, either deliberately or unintentionally, deceiving.   What is the harm in identifying yourself?

I say it wasn't a mistake, that "
the LM311 was not included in the Education edition because of a wrong tag in the Multisim database."

I'm just wondering how many "wrong tags" there are, as I still haven't been told.  Granted, I'm not blaming you for the wrong tag, but I do blame you for still not telling me how many parts are missing in V10 that I had in V9.  Are you intending for me to find out for myself?  If so, as I said in the other thread, that could take months.  I don't even have the time to be responding to you right now.  But I had time to play with V10 over the holiday, just enough to see I'd been ripped off, and that's when I had to stop.  I next came to the forum to find out if others had the same problem and how it was solved.  I found one such post but no solution, only questions, questions I didn't need to answer.

For all I know for a fact no other parts have disappeared, but, as it stands, I can only conclude that this is not the only part that disappeared via the "upgrade." 

You know who I am.  You have my contact information.   Please send me what I'm missing before I find out, because I really cannot spare the time to find out before I try to use V10 again.  It's just that simple.

And yet I've spent more valuable time (it's called "a cost") trying....  bla bla bla

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Message 5 of 9
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"You know who I am.  You have my contact information.   Please send me what I'm missing before I find out, because I really cannot spare the time to find out before I try to use V10 again.  It's just that simple."

I told you what will satisfy me, and I've repeated it again above, just to make it clear.  Calling me at work, even though I did not give you the number when you hinted at getting it, will not change this, whether I accept the call or not.  I told you before that I am too busy, and I meant it.  My schedule is hectic, flat swamped.  I do not have time to haggle with you over this over the phone.

Or, you can always simply tell me right here in this public forum that what you've sent as the V10 "upgrade" is what I had in V9, but you'd better be telling the truth.

Now stop bugging me. 


P.S.  Just to see if maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion just a little (a sanity check if you will), I spoke with several today thanks to that call.  I am in the right.  You had no defenders.  All laughed hearing the ordeal I've had with MultiSim over the years.  They also were very interested in knowing the outcome, and I told them I'd keep them posted.
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I'm sorry, but I have no other avenue but to respond here.  When you and I  finally speak I will explain why, where I know you will agree why.

That said, there appears to be a communication breakdown.  You appear to think I want something I don't want, but at the same time what I want isn't unreasonable at all, for it is impossible to issue a software upgrade in any other way.  We're not talking rocket science.  In fact, to deny me what I want is proof of deception, as it can be nothing else.

Yes, I realize that sounds harsh, but it's only because either you really don't understand what I see crystal clear, which leads to my response just prior (which means here, in this post!), or you do understand quite well, we're playing chess, and you've discovered you are in check.

Eventually you'll call when I said.  You've got the how, but the when part you still don't get.  The best I can figure is you think I'm just giving you a hard time; you're used to that, so you've put me in that mold.  However, when I say I can't speak when I can't speak, it means I can't.  You say you want to speak with me urgently, but then you show no urgency, except urgency in your eyes, within the thin/thick shell of your paradigm.  You need to every once in a while step back from your paper pushing and say, "perhaps this customer is telling the truth."  That's where I think things are breaking down, why you haven't heard what I've said and haven't read what I've said, causing you to, frankly, respond to some other customer, the way I received your latest attempt to communicate.  (I could swear you were following a script, like someone in telemarketing.)

However, I wouldn't be comfortable just leaving things there, as I am also to blame here, and I realize this.  For I am not the greatest when it comes to communicating with persons such as yourself.  ...and of course, after all, I am also doing just the same as I've said about you -- I am also placing you in a mold, based on your response thus far.  You see it's all about communication, the nature and structure of communication, the way it works.  In short, for you and I to communicate (and most would follow with the word "successfully," there) requires common knowledge between us.  Where your world revolves around X, mine revolves around Y.  However, there must be a common Z in both X and Y in order for communication to transpire between us.  Otherwise, we will never be able to communicate, not  "successfully" communicate, but communicate; one is bizarre gibberish uttered by each of us, and the other is communication between us.  😉

If you're on the up-n-up, I hope you understand.   If you're not on the up-n-up, I won't have to respond at a point in the future.  How do you think I find these bugs I've found?  When communications breaks down, any one who'd enjoy MultiSim, even with its burps, bugs, and absurdity, surely will troubleshoot, wouldn't you think?

Well, that's all the time I can afford.  Your turn.  We've got the how, so now all we need is the when, and then you won't need to speak with me urgently, while I'll be a satisfied (absolute bliss isn't an option, ever) customer.       
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Briefly, very briefly....

I involved an outside party last night by allowing that outside party to listen to your voicemail, based on our communication difficulty, just to see if they heard the same as I'd heard.  I can say at this point that you and I are speaking different languages. 🙂  You said something and I heard another and I said something and you heard another, for sure sure and without a doubt.

Now  we just need to speak in a way that you can respond and I can respond simultaneously, and that's by telephone.  In light of this new understanding (this different/outside perspective) on my part, I will make a concerted effort to try to contact you, as this thing is so easily resolved if we can just get to talk.  In short, with respect to what I said about communication, I'm seeing a Z in your X and my Y. 😉
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Message 8 of 9
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I thought I'd have more time than I have, so I'll just have to say this quick.

Many thanks for helping me get this thing resolved, so that I could feel good about MultiSim V10 again.  I really like the MultiSim program and, after our conversation, I'm glad folks like you are now on the case.  Plus, I'm so happy that I could renew our service contract.  True, I have had many problems with MultiSim over the years since its birth, but at the same time, I really like the feel of the program, as it's very easy to use, and I really did not want to part company you; yet I had to be sure that it would not be wasted money.  I thank you for giving me that assurance.  Absolutely, the phone made all the difference in the world.  We just speak in different languages in print.  🙂

Sorry this is so short, but I just couldn't leave this thread hanging any longer, lest others who may be reading be left to wonder if this problem was ever resolved.  Well I can tell them emphatically yes.  In fact, I'll even tell them, should they ever feel as I did at the start of this thread, that they should just step back, breathe, and give you a call.  It's not the same old MultiSim black hole.  You really sound like you're on the ball there, that you really are working on making MultiSim better, and that you have the customer's needs and goals at the forefront.

And with that now I have to go, as, as usual, I'm swamped.
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