anyone know anything about transistor model creation?

[Euler's_Identity]

Although it was rather difficult, I've managed to get what may be half decent parameters into a 2n3055 model I'm trying to build. (I can never find the famous ".cir" model for anything.)  The main place where I had zilch was input capacitance.  So, since I started with the 2n2222's numbers, I just left them there.

I droped the "component" in a simple circuit, but clearly my pin mapping is hosed up.  Hence, this leads to my first question.

I do not understand what "q%p %tB %tC %tE %m"  is or how it maps to my symbol (an NPN transistor).  Does anyone out there have a clue?

And yes, before you say it to me, yes, yes, yes, I did do the tutorial that had me follow the bouncing ball and create a programmable gain amp being promoted by Texas Instruments.  But what does it do for me in trying to build a well-known transistor's model??

Also, as I briefly mentioned before, does anyone out there know where this great repository of *.cir models is?  One would think that as common as a 2n3055 is, there most certainly is a 2n3055.cir out there somewhere, but I haven't found it.


Incidentally, I've found these, but I haven't a clue as to how to make them work for me:

----- model 1 -----
*2N3055
*Si 115W 70V 15A 20kHz pkg:TO-3 3,2,1
.MODEL 2N3055 NPN(IS=4.66E-12 BF=360 VAF=100 IKF=0.25 ISE=3.339E-11
+ BR=2 ISC=5E-9 RB=3 IRB=0.001 RBM=0.4 RC=0.04 CJE=5.802E-10 VJE=1.2
+ MJE=0.45 TF=8E-8 XTF=1 ITF=3 PTF=120 CJC=2.121E-10 MJC=0.4 TR=2.55E-6
+ XTB=1)

---- model 2 -----
*.model MJE3055 ako:NSC_4A NPN() ; case Mot 90 (s)
.MODEL MJE3055 NPN(Is=457.5f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=50 Bf=156.7 Ise=1.346p Ne=1.34
+ Ikf=3.296 Nk=.5961 Xtb=2.2 Br=7.639 Isc=604.1f Nc=2.168
+ Ikr=8.131m Rc=91.29m Cjc=278.7p Mjc=.385 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=433p
+ Mje=.5 Vje=.75 Tr=1.412u Tf=37.34n Itf=35.68 Xtf=1.163 Vtf=10
+ Rb=.1)
 
And this one's a real beaut...

**************************************
*      Model Generated by MODPEX     *
*Copyright(c) Symmetry Design Systems*
*         All Rights Reserved        *
*    UNPUBLISHED LICENSED SOFTWARE   *
*   Contains Proprietary Information *
*      Which is The Property of      *
*     SYMMETRY OR ITS LICENSORS      *
*    Modeling services provided by   *
* Interface Technologies www.i-t.com *
**************************************
.MODEL Qmje3055t npn
+IS=1.92238e-13 BF=327.43 NF=0.85 VAF=36.105
+IKF=0.620037 ISE=1.4602e-10 NE=1.50926 BR=0.654697
+NR=0.935367 VAR=361.05 IKR=6.20037 ISC=6.85154e-12
+NC=2.96871 RB=16.05 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.161446
+RE=0.000602331 RC=0.0632768 XTB=0.943656 XTI=1.12302
+EG=1.05 CJE=9.23675e-08 VJE=0.506151 MJE=0.607139
+TF=1e-08 XTF=1.35736 VTF=0.997047 ITF=0.999796
+CJC=5e-10 VJC=0.400198 MJC=0.410184 XCJC=0.803125
+FC=0.658133 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
* Model generated on Jan 18, 2004
* Model format: PSpice


I guess what I'm asking is has anyone out there successfully taken a NON *.cir definition and created a fairly well working transistor model, and will that person please be so kind as to help me to understand how to do it for myself?

I swear NI/Multisim are shooting themselves in the foot by not making user requested Multisim models available for a fee.  They'd make soooo much money.  Moreover, by only offering a scant few models, maybe, just maybe, their starting software price might be affordable to, oh, most people who can't access corporate funding.

I swear I'll pay a flat fee of $20 to anyone who will sell me a working Multisim model for any discrete component when I need it.  One of the biggest hurdles of Multisim is producing functioning models.  There is a tremendous business opportunity in producing working Multisim models, and it is only a matter of time until some entrepreneur out there cashes in on it.  If NI/Multisim doesn't have the brains to figure this out, I'll bet somebody else out there does. For I have yet to have a model from a manufacturer work in Multisim, much less painlessly be transferred into it. This 2n3055/2955 modelwas tried by me nearly a year ago, but I eventually had to give up. ...and yes, I contacted technical support. Oh boy was that a bad move! ...but that's a story for another time.



 

Message Edited by Euler's Identity on 10-28-2007 11:30 AM

[Euler's_Identity]

Oh, before I go, here's the 3055's mate:

**************************************
*      Model Generated by MODPEX     *
*Copyright(c) Symmetry Design Systems*
*         All Rights Reserved        *
*    UNPUBLISHED LICENSED SOFTWARE   *
*   Contains Proprietary Information *
*      Which is The Property of      *
*     SYMMETRY OR ITS LICENSORS      *
*    Modeling services provided by   *
* Interface Technologies www.i-t.com *
**************************************
.MODEL Qmje2955t pnp
+IS=4.14254e-10 BF=449.16 NF=0.85 VAF=17.4911
+IKF=0.414206 ISE=1e-08 NE=1.47014 BR=0.1
+NR=1.09325 VAR=174.911 IKR=4.14206 ISC=7.59792e-09
+NC=3.02799 RB=20.1795 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.1
+RE=0.000499379 RC=0.0813684 XTB=0.1 XTI=1.16399
+EG=1.05 CJE=9.97416e-08 VJE=0.416937 MJE=0.61618
+TF=9.98874e-09 XTF=1.35736 VTF=0.997021 ITF=0.999788
+CJC=4.99998e-10 VJC=0.40025 MJC=0.410011 XCJC=0.803124
+FC=0.661649 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
* Model generated on Jan 18, 2004
* Model format: PSpice


Once again, I couldn't get it either.

[lacy]

I am only going to make one comment and I will leave the rest to someone with more experience on the model creation end of things. I am interested in that as much as you are since I have tried and and just couldn't figure it out and finally gave up on it.

My comment is about the model making business as you describe it. There are companies out there that already provide this service. I do not know what prices they charge for their services, but a Google search will pop up quite of few of them. A person would have to check on pricing and all the rest of the details concerning this, but they are out there.

I want to add that Multisim used to have a partnership with Edaparts.com to supply model information and footprints for free. When Edaparts became a portion of Partsminer.com this freebie ended and they now charge a subscription fee for this service. That really fudged things up in my opinion. Anyway, I thought I would let you know this if you didn't already and maybe you might be interested in checking it out.

Message Edited by lacy on 10-28-2007 12:30 PM

[Euler's_Identity]

Are you serious?!!

There is someone out there making models for Multisim??!!

Please post a link/some links and I'm there!   Seriously, I will pay to get working Multisim models.  Absolutely!
 

[lacy]

Your best bet would be Partsminer.com because I know they used to create models for components specifically for EWB/Multisim. I believe they still do, but you can check them out and see. It is a subscription base service however and I am not sure of their pricing.

Heres the link:  http://www.partminer.com/

And here's another one: http://www.aeng.com/spicemodeling.asp

Message Edited by lacy on 10-28-2007 12:38 PM

Message Edited by lacy on 10-28-2007 12:47 PM

[Euler's_Identity]

Just went there and I'm having no luck.  Are you sure you have the right url?  What am I missing?

[lacy]

This used to be included under their Caps Service. They may no longer do this, but I know they used to. Check out the second link I posted. Also do a Google search for "Spice Modeling Service". This will give even more link to other places.

The only thing is that you would have to check with these Services to make sure that they could support Multisim if they don't specifically say on their sites. I wouldn't think that would be a problem, but you never know until you ask.

[Euler's_Identity]

I just put in an RFQ with partminer. I'll keep you posted.

[Euler's_Identity]

"check with these Services to make sure that they could support Multisim"

That's where I think there will be a problem.  But if I'm going to pay good money, I want transparent insertion into Multisim.  This pattern of doing constant research just to get Multisim to work for me is getting old, very old.  So, thanks to you, let's see what partminer turns up.

It's worth a try.

 

[lacy]

The reason I said this was that they list various versions of Spice on their sites. The last link I gave said they support "PSpice, HSpice, Spice 3 and Other Spice platforms" , but I just wanted anyone who may read this to be sure and ask before jumping in a spending money on something until they know for sure if it will work.