Do I have bad models?? mje3055t, mje2955t -- On Semi

[Euler's_Identity]

I have a circuit that uses the 2n3055, a 15 amp device.  I dropped ST Microelectronics' SPICE model nto Multisim 9 and got favorable results @ Ic= (approx) 4a.

I don't want a to-3 package and 15 amps is a bit much; also, I'd like a complementary pair.  Therefore, I decided to try On Semiconductor's mje3055t and mje2955t.  Once again, I dropped the models in Multisim 9, but this time I haven't received even workable results.  mje3055t: Vbe>1.5v @ Ic<6a?? -- It's a 10a device, and I've never seen a Vbe so high (actually it was >1.8v)!

I've contacted On Semiconductor, so the problem is now being worked on on four ends: me, EWB, On Semi, and, now, you, the forum participants.

On Semi is saying their models come from their datasheets, but they are wondering how I could have received my numbers, as the datasheet calls for typical Vbe=1.1v @ Ic=6a.  (I should hear more tomorrow.)

What gives?  Are On Semi's models in error, my models to Multisim in error, or is Multisim in error.  Something is in error.

P.S.  Yes, I tried all permutations of e, b, and c.  The above results were the closest to even looking like a transistor could be in operation, so I'd bet that I didn't enter the model incorrectly.  (I cut my teeth on the 2n3055 model, know what's right and what's not, for the most part.)  

P.P.S.  Circuit (in case anyone wishes to join in): Simple CE amp, referenced to GND, single base limiter (75 ohms) and collector load (2 ohms), using 2n3055 sub'd w/mje3055t and +15v for Vbb and Vcc. ...I'm leaning towards the reason being faulty On Semi models so far...    

[Euler's_Identity]

Yeesh!  I thought I'd get at least one person out there who could relate, maybe offer some advice about this.

Oh well, so far I've heard nothing more from either EWB or On Semi. 

[Bhavesh]

Euler,

Is it possible for you to attach a copy of your model/symbol to a Multisim file and then attach it to this thread? We might be able to see what the exact issue is.

[Euler's_Identity]

-------- begin model mje3055t --------

**************************************

* deleted comments, due to message size limit

**************************************

.MODEL Qmje3055t npn

+IS=1.92238e-13 BF=327.43 NF=0.85 VAF=36.105

+IKF=0.620037 ISE=1.4602e-10 NE=1.50926 BR=0.654697

+NR=0.935367 VAR=361.05 IKR=6.20037 ISC=6.85154e-12

+NC=2.96871 RB=16.05 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.161446

+RE=0.000602331 RC=0.0632768 XTB=0.943656 XTI=1.12302

+EG=1.05 CJE=9.23675e-08 VJE=0.506151 MJE=0.607139

+TF=1e-08 XTF=1.35736 VTF=0.997047 ITF=0.999796

+CJC=5e-10 VJC=0.400198 MJC=0.410184 XCJC=0.803125

+FC=0.658133 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5

+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1

----------------- end model mje3055t -------------------

----------------- begin model mj3e2955t -----------------

**************************************

* ditto

**************************************

.MODEL Qmje2955t pnp

+IS=4.14254e-10 BF=449.16 NF=0.85 VAF=17.4911

+IKF=0.414206 ISE=1e-08 NE=1.47014 BR=0.1

+NR=1.09325 VAR=174.911 IKR=4.14206 ISC=7.59792e-09

+NC=3.02799 RB=20.1795 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.1

+RE=0.000499379 RC=0.0813684 XTB=0.1 XTI=1.16399

+EG=1.05 CJE=9.97416e-08 VJE=0.416937 MJE=0.61618

+TF=9.98874e-09 XTF=1.35736 VTF=0.997021 ITF=0.999788

+CJC=4.99998e-10 VJC=0.40025 MJC=0.410011 XCJC=0.803124

+FC=0.661649 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5

+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1

-------------- end model mje2955t --------------------

-------------- begin model 2n3055 ---------------

**************************************

* ditto

**************************************

.MODEL Q2n3055a npn

+IS=7.56605e-11 BF=199.697 NF=1.39955 VAF=49.3238

+IKF=2.66273 ISE=9.23519e-12 NE=3.28532 BR=3.14992

+NR=1.5 VAR=2.14582 IKR=5.49313 ISC=4e-13

+NC=3.9375 RB=6.03501 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.1

+RE=0.000679719 RC=0.172601 XTB=0.1 XTI=1.06192

+EG=1.09076 CJE=5.86993e-10 VJE=0.4 MJE=0.447741

+TF=9.77098e-09 XTF=22.2631 VTF=23624.6 ITF=0.00271772

+CJC=2.52555e-10 VJC=0.95 MJC=0.396387 XCJC=1

+FC=0.8 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5

+TR=6.83123e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1

------------- end model 2n3055 -------------

I've never posted an attachment before, but there should be two msm9 files attached to ths post.  One is a 2n3055 test circuit with the mje3055t test circuit above it, and the other is a test of both the mje3055t and the mje2955t. The mje models are On Semiconductor's models as listed above, and the 2n3055 model is via ST Microelectronics and courtesy of Protel, thanks to a buddy of mine.  (If you know where to get STM transistor models (or others) online, please let me know.  It's too bad EWB doesn't offer a models CD for purchase, as I woud buy it.) 

If the models don't come out on your end (attached to the circut), let me know and tell me how to attach the models to a post.

P.S. Hello again Bhavesh (it's gotta be you).  Yep, you know me, but here I'm Euler's Identity, ok?  🙂 

P.P.S.  I'm out of time to figure this out, but I just got

"The file does not have a valid extension for an attachment. jpg,gif,txt,xls,vi,zip,doc,llb,pdf,png,seq,c,h,cpp,cs,vb,ini,gz,ctl,scr,ico,tar,z,uir,vit,wsp,tsw,rtf,lvproj,xctl,lvlib,cfg,ppt,pps,lks,l4p,l4t,spy,bld are the valid extensions."

when I tried to post the MSM9 circuits, which, frankly, makes no sense in a msm/EWB-related forum???  I'm sorry, but this is the best I can do right now.  Just please enter the models and see what you get.  1.9v=Vbe is not right.  Something is screwed up.    

[Euler's_Identity]

Bhavesh,

Here are the results of each circuit w/all usng the same values for V+, Rb, and Rc (15v, 75, and 2):  V+ = |VRb +Vbe|, and also V+ = |VRc + Vce|.  (It's just a simple CE amp configuration repeated for three test circuits.)  Plus, remember the mje2955t circuit requires correct biasing by flipping the V+, as the device is a pnp.  (Just flip the device and the source for that circuit.) 

2n3055:

Vbe = 883.485mv, Ic = 4.013a, Vc = 6.974v

mje3055t:

Vbe = 1.928v, Ic = 5.673a, Vc = 3.654v  (Vbe is way too high, as is, likely, Ic.)

mje2955t:

Vbe = -2.052v, Ic = -5.68a, Vc = -3.64v  (ditto)

P.S.  Yeah, I'm still out of time, but I needed to give you the above info anyway.  ...this is much the nature of working w/Multisim in my experience ...many hours spent trying to get things to work... ...my latest "challenge" is a PLL.  Got anything for a cd4046 model??

(Multisim's virtual PLL doesn't seem suitable, and the symbol (the whole five minutes I looked at it) makes little sense thus far, from what I know about PLL's.  Maybe when I get a chance I'll post about it, assuming no one else has, based on my search results, when I have the time to search for it   Hint: You (EWB) could make so much money if you'd just sell CD's of models that worked, to go along with a bare bones, but fully expandable, Multisim -- there is a huge market out there of people who do not want to create models and will buy them from you to avoid the hassle. 😉

[Euler's_Identity]

I just added a PLL question thread to the forum, so you can respond there if you like.