Bugs List - please advise

[nestor-sg]

Alex,

I just checked your #16 and #17 reports...

#16: This is not a bug. This is a feature request. If you need more letters you can always edit the component once it is placed. I will file a feature request so they can allow for users to specify a default prefix with more than one letter.

#17: I just tried different components in footprint edit mode. They all flip perfectly fine... is there a specific component that is not doing it correctly?...

[kittmaster]

Nestor

Forgive me, how can only one letter in the string be a feature? Who's feature is that? This clearly is not an industry standard since in my experience have never experienced this limatation in PADS, ORCAD, OR TANGO. There should not be any limitations on this input string value. Maybe it would be a good idea for those that want this feature to assign the limitation in the GLOBAL settings and not individual settings of each component. IMO this is a major bug and needs immediate overall.

I think that some of these things are the issue at hand. My suggestion, give the global settings a LOT more user adjustment then it currently has. Right now everything is done at a component level. Most other PCB programs >>> from experience >> set the ALL GLOBALS FIRST and then do a component adjust on the fly as needed per incident. Also, the on the fly variables can not violate the globals, and a DRC should flag if it does. Right now UB is exactly opposite and in many cases counter intuative.

For example, DRC clearances, as it stands, if I plug in 13 mils for clearance trace to trace, it puts a 13 mil barrier around each and every trace when the intent is that global clearance should be 13 mil trace to trace. As it stands, UB had 13 around each trace which force a global value of 13 + 13 and give 26 mil total clearance.......that is wrong. If I assign 6.5 mils (1/2 the distance) the DRC rules allow the two 6.5 barriers to OVERLAP giving a 6.5 mil clearance trace to trace.....which makes no sense since the trace to trace should have left 6.5 + 6.5 = 13 mils as a global......never happens.....its a crap shoot.

In that instance, it forces things like the autorouter to not allow a trace sneak through when clearly a 5 mil trace could pass through without violating the global of 13 mil pad to pad.......this happens for ALL entitities. In this example, I've submitted this, yet the global rules still don't function correctly.

Just food for thought.....others may have more to add.

Message Edited by kittmaster on 08-01-2007 01:05 PM

[alexbilo]

Hi Nestor,

16. I don't know why, but on my side it does definitely flip wrong. I create a new footprint, I draw a shape (say, a triangle which makes it easy to see the flip effect) on the silkscreen layer, and when I do a horizontal flip it flips vertically.

17. I agree with kittymaster, what kind of feature could it be? We use reference designators that comply with IEEE Std 315-1975, which frequently uses two-letters reference designators. Who decided that a ref des. should have only one letter?

Thanks,

Alex

[nestor-sg]

Alex, my bad, I did not tried all the shapes (thanks for suggesting the triangle -polygon)... and I can now see what you are reporting, I will immediately file this as a defect.

Chris, Alex, I am not in the interest to start a discussion of what is a bug and what is not. But I would like to explain what I mean when I make a distinction between them, I don't want you guys to take the impression that I am not being serious about your comments, I am, and we all at NI are, so let me explain what I mean when I call something a bug or a feature... A bug (defect) is something that is broken or is not working, or is not doing the correct task, such as the flip function Alex just reported, in that case that's considered a defect that needs to be fixed. In the case of the multi-letter RefDes, the ability to choose more than one letter is not available, you have a drop-down list with fixed selections you can choose from, the ability to choose multiple letters is not built in the software, you only can choose from the available options (single letter). This is a feature request we have to make in order to have the software the ability to let you choose multiple letters. If you were able to choose multiple letters and then it won't show them then that would be a bug. In this case is not, that is why I'm reporting it as a feature we need to add to let a user add more letters. If you currently need to add the extra letters you can do so after you place the component. Still, Multisim should follow the IEEE standard like Alex is saying and that is why we are requesting to R&D that they review that section and add that functionality that is missing.

[alexbilo]

Hi Nestor,

I perfectly get your point concerning what is a bug and what is a feature. I thought that you meant that being able to use only letter came from a previous feature request.

Now, if I may, I'd suggest that you allow for a liberal number of characters. The standard uses 1 or 2 characters ref. des, but many other guidelines that people may use make use of several characters.

What is strange is that in the previous versions we were able to specify multiple characters ref des. That is why I considered this a bug in the first time.

Thanks,

Alex

[nestor-sg]

Thanks Alex, I will modify the report to include your suggestion. Having the drop-down list with no text-edit feature in 10 is preventing the ability for the multi-letters... I will note that on the report...

[alexbilo]

Hi Nestor,

Bug #18: clearances aren't always transferred from Multisim to Ultiboard
When you edit the clearances of a net in Multisim, the changes doesn't get transferred if this is the only modification that was done on this net. If you change a connection on the net, however, the clearances get transferred properly.

Thanks,

Alex

[Tien_P]

Hi Alex,

I tried to replicate this problem but was not able to do so.  Here is what I did:

1.  Turn on the spreadsheet in Multisim

2.  Click on the Nets tab

3.  Under Trace to trace column (the value in this column is transferred to UB Trace clearance column) I entered a value.

4.  It transferred correctly

5.  I went back to MSM and modified the trace value and transferred to new UB file and it worked.

The only thing that I can see that will not work is if you were to forward annotate.

[alexbilo]

Hi Tien,

Thank you for your answer. However, it is not applicable to our problem.

We often have to modify the clearances when we are in the PCB design phase (part placement/routing). I think that it is quite obvious that I won't create a new file each time I want to modify a clearance, that would mean restarting the board from sratch.

Alex

[kittmaster]

Actually you would not have to restart the board from scratch, if you modify it due to an issue or unable to route, you can use the forward annotate the nets and UB will just reassign and resize accordingly. Now if your talking about trace preplaced that is problematic then those traces will need to be rerouted or else you'll get DRC errors is the min/max limits are exceeded.

So it can be done with minimal impact, just a few more steps until you find the sizes that are most correct for your design.