Firewire hub not detectable

[Shazlan]

Hi,

I have a desktop with a PCI firewire card installed and a firewire camera connected to one of the port. This setup works fine. However, I recently purchased a new firewire hub from Belkin (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=193393) to increase the number of firewire ports. The hub is powered externally from a DC source. The problem appears when I make the connection from the camera to the hub and then to the PCI card. The computer does not seem to be able to 'see' the camera - the subtree imaqdx does appear in MAX. I've checked the hub and there's power to it. I have no idea how to check whether the hub is working correctly but since it is brand new, I assume it is okay.

Also, I am hoping that I could connect the hub to my laptop. The laptop has a 4-pin firewire port but since the hub is powered externally, this shouldn't be a problem (or should it?). I've tried but have the same problem as above. I assume that once the camera is detectable in MAX via the hub, the same solution can also be adopted for laptop/mobile applications. 

I've browsed through the forum and found out other people have done similar setup before and it seems that it is a rather simple setup. I'm running out of ideas on troubleshooting this bugger. Any help, hints or advices are very much appreciated.

Thanks.

Shazlan

Message Edited by Lan 78 on 12-03-2008 01:25 AM

[Robert_Eastlund]

Dear Shazlan,

Does the camera appear in the computer's Device Manager?  If so, run an update on the camera's driver in the Device Manager.  The camera should then appear in MAX.  Next, you will need to close the Device Manager and launch MAX, and if the camera shows up in MAX, you will need to reselect the NI-IMAQdx driver.

-Robert

[Shazlan]

Hi Robert,

If I were to connect the camera straight to the PCI card (Computer-PCI-camera), it appears in MAX. I can then choose the camera's driver in MAX. Hence, I don't think it's the driver issue. The problem arises when I use the hub (Computer-PCI-hub-camera). Neither MAX nor the computer (device manager) sees the camera. Does this means that the hub is faulty?

Shazlan

[Robert_Eastlund]

I would not want to condemn the hub so quickly.  Do you have another firewire adapter that you can try attaching the hub to?  Do you have a 6-pin to 4-pin firewire cable to try the hub out with the laptop?

-Robert

[Shazlan]

The thing is, when I connect the camera to the PCI card in the hub, everything (both the camera, cable and PCI card) works fine. The problem arises when the hub came into the picture. Anyhow, I've returned the hub back for them to inspect. Based from their preliminary inspection and test, they also could not get the hub to work (although there is power to the hub). I was told that they will need about two weeks to get back to me... which is one very bad news as I couldn't find firewire hubs around here.

While thinking on ways to get around this, I've been thinking... I have a Magma 1-slot PCI expansion box. This box were to be connected to a laptop via ExpressCard but I believe the card was damaged a while back (the box is still fine, though). Now, if I were to insert my PCI card inside the expansion box, power it up and use it as a hub. Does anybody know whether this is possible?

[Robert_Eastlund]

If it supplies power to the camera, the Magma should work.  I have a PCMCIA/Cardbus firewire card w/ power supply in stock.  It has two firewire B ports and one firewire A port.  I also have one of a Belkin firewire card in stock.

-Robert Eastlund

[pallen]

Hi Shazlan,

While I can't know for sure if your particular hub is defective or not, I have used NI Vision with Firewire cameras that were connected to a powered hub.  I don't remember the exact make of the hub.  But it was a 5 port we picked up at TigerDirect. 

I do remember coming across a cable that would would work when plugged directly into the PCI Firewire card, but not when plugged into the hub.  No idea why that one cable was behaving that way.  Things worked fine when it was replaced.

Good luck with your Project.

[Sundar...]

According to me the camera is not able to source enough power from the extension that has been used.

There is best efficency at the optimal cable length . Try sourcing the power to the camera separately .

There`s a trick to it; of the four wires on connector, 2 are used for data and the other two for power .

But be carefull not to damage the camera by giving incorrect connections. Read through the camera

manual carefully before attempting this.

Sundar.

[Shazlan]

Thanks all for the comments and replies.

I've finally replaced the hub and have checked to ensure that it is working. I've tried two connection configurations (please see the attached jpeg). For the first configuration, I've connected my firewire cameras to the hub (which is powered by a DC source) and then, connect the hub to NI's Compact Vision System (CVS). All cables used are 6pin to 6pin firewire cable. Under this configuration, I could see the cameras and everything works fine.

However, the problem is with the second configuration (which is the configuration that I want). Instead of using CVS, I replaced it with a laptop with a built-in firewire port. This port, however, is a 4-pin port. According to the local NI support, this should not be a problem as the other two pins are meant for power and the hub is independently powered. After I have made the connection, the camera doesn't appear in MAX (which I assume means that the computer does not see the camera). I've tried using several laptops and the problem still persists.

Any ideas? This headache has become a great annoyance. All assistance and advices are highly appreciated.

Message Edited by Lan 78 on 02-22-2009 02:43 AM

[pallen]

---

Lan 78 wrote:

....I've tried using several laptops and the problem still persists.

Any ideas? This headache has become a great annoyance. All assistance and advices are highly appreciated.

---

Most laptops limit the amount of power the USB and Firewire ports provide.  I've run into this problem too, even with a PCMCIA firewire card on a laptop.  In my case, the seperately powered hub took care of the problem.  Perhaps a different hub would help?  

You could also try to power the camera directly from a seperate source to just "make it work".  But I agree that this would be less than ideal.