Future of Lookout - Updates?

[erblock]

Many important suggestions for fixes and enhancements to Lookout have gone unanswered for years now.  Can we expect movement on these suggestions?  Should we start a new list of suggestions?  Where is Lookout going from here?  Updates this fall?

National Instruments:  Please talk to us on this subject.  Loyalty is one think..... ignorance is another.

[Ryan.S]

We do not ignore any suggestions or feedback from customers. The features we develop for each release are almost all from customers' feedback.

Please understand that we cannot implement all the suggestions, so we prioritize them and pick the urgent or important ones. We are considering to add the new Excel file format support, basic drawing tools, Mailer's authentication, etc, to the next release. And some useful suggestions on improvements are not as big as a feature, so we will implement them when we have time and enough resources.

[erblock]

So the million dollar question is:

Are your resources to maintain and improve Lookout in the future going to remain level, increase, or fall off?  It is a double edged sword I know.  To attract new customers, you must enhance the product and keep it stable and keep it updated.  Lookout has done very little of this in the last decade that was not in direct support of LabVIEW development.  Lookout has always gotten the short end of the stick because of it's name and because it was originally developed and named by non-NI folks.  LabVIEW stole all of Lookout's great technology with very little kickback to the base product that is really the star.

I watched Lookout basically fall off the face of NI Week in short order (3 years, starting in 2000) from having large posters and presence and lectures, etc., to nothing...not even the word Lookout anywhere to be seen.

Frankly, I think the only reason Lookout has survived at all is because LabVIEW's dreams to have online compiling were too optimistic and/or unrealistic.

Things are becoming even more fast moving in the software development world, and I can't see Lookout surviving without a substantial increase in resources to bring it's fantastic core technology inline with updated features and a commitment to make this an ongoing process.

Without a new dedication and upratchet of support by NI, this commitment cannot be realized and market share will not improve.  Without new market share, Lookout likely cannot remain financially solvent and will finally fall by LabVIEW's sword.

I know I sound harsh.  I am thankful that Lookout has seen some improvements by LabVIEW's demand.  I am also disgusted that NI left Lookout on the side of the road for so many years.  Without Lookout's Citadel, LabVIEW would likely be in the dust.  Unfortunately, also because of Lookout's Citadel, NI left Lookout in LabVIEW's dust for some stupid (IMHO) reason.

Okay, that is enough rant for now....  In the next few weeks I will attempt to round up and refine previous complaints/suggestions and add some new ones.  I'm not ready to give up Lookout (although, I've been close a few times) and I still have a sliver of hope that the future will change positively for Lookout.

I will also be putting Lookout 6.2 through the hoops with Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7 RTMs starting this week and will report any issues.

One last note:  Ryan, please do not take this personally!  I appreciate all your hard work and willingness to lend individual assistance in addition to any ongoing product improvements/maintenance.  This forum would be lost without you.  Kudos, Kudos, Kudos!!!  We just need/want another dozen Ryans, that's all

Ed

Message Edited by erblock on 07-27-2009 01:14 AM

[Ryan.S]

Ed, Thank you for your consistent support on Lookout. I totally agree with you that Lookout has great technology and has done a great job in the HMI/SCADA application. Maybe we can say LabVIEW "stole" some technologies from Lookout, but actually we share a lot. For example, we developed the Citadel 5 database for both LabVIEW and Lookout, we add the NI OPC Server to both LabVIEW and Lookout.

Frankly, LabVIEW is the core software of NI. I agree that NI spend little resource in marketing Lookout these years.

To answer to first question, our resources are at least going to remain the current level.  

By the way, although I seem to be the only one from NI who is active on this Lookout Forum, we have a team behind to maintain and develop the software.

[Mike@Forshock]

I recently had a talk with an NI Alliance Partner.  They mentioned the fact that NI does not truly support Lookout and is hesitant to recommend it over LabView.  This "Partner" is so busy converting existing Lookout systems to ClearSCADA it is not funny, I know one of my previous systems (integrator I did work for) is in the process of being updated to ClearSCADA by this "Partner".  Never mind the fact that we can't even get System Integrator or OEM type pricing anymore, which is BS.

Having been using ClearSCADA, Citect and InduSoft lately, I am still drawn to Lookout for its easy to learn nature.  Tag Databases, create your own data-source,  etc. Lookout just blows them our of the water for ease of use.

The problems plaguing Lookout right now (as I have experienced, others may be different):

• Database Stability:  Lost data, missing days that were previously there, resource usage (256MB & a whole core to show 7 day tank trend?), etc.
• Vector Graphics:  Save some time on development and less resource intensive in the long run (only updates on re-size)
• Scripting:  I know, expressions and stuff can "work", but creating custom functions would be great.  VBA, JavaScript, something well recognized.

LabVIEW?

Yes, we all know NI wants to sell LabVIEW with DSC.  The point missing is we focus on primarily small-mid size systems.  These small companies cannot see the value is spending $6000 + yearly support when options like Lookout (We can use 200 or less IO) and InduSoft (pricing is similar) is less than 1/5 of LabVIEW's cost.

We need some major industry wins with Lookout.  I would be happy to list some of the achievements we have accomplished using Lookout with regards to our clients in the Water industry.  

Ryan, someone; keep us in the loop please. I have no problems with out-sourcing (Lookout is done primarily "out of NI"?), but a forum is not a real support tool.

 /endrant

Thanks

Mike

(formerly Mike@DTSI)

[Mike@Forshock]

An update:

After a little phone tag and some discussions I was able to get to an Lookout product manager.

Lookout is NOT being phased out and is in active development.  So I am confident that I will keep using Lookout for our projects, and will do my best to create some case studies and such to get published.

Thanks NI,

Mike 

[erblock]

"Active" development?  Yeah, right!  What team size have they dedicated to Lookout?  Two?  Give me a break... I'll believe it when I see it.

[Mike@Forshock]

Most of the Lookout and some other product lines have been moved off-shore; unfortunately it is happening a lot.  While I know the staff tries to help here, a lot of the customer interaction is lost without a more direct contact.  And as far as support; you ever try to get a hold of GE, Schneider/Modicon?  They have phone support and it still takes 1-3 days for a response.

Lookout is still feature competitive with most other HMI packages I have experience with, and we all want the moon in regards to features.  I am ok with less new features so long as the stability is actually increased.

Maybe redundancy and "load-sharing" more incorporated into the development process, internet* and mobile access.  I would be a happy camper with those features.  The mobile access can be done with a little .Net work (which NI develops in) quite easily.

* Yes it works, but requiring a user to use ActiveX controls in a "secure" environment can be a real pain. 

Mike

[Ryan.S]

Highlights:

"less new features so long as the stability is actually increased"

"internet and mobile access"

[Mike@Forshock]

I hear Android is a growing platform 🙂

Mike