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Tired of Dell\HP\etc!

For a number of years, we have been purchasing PCs from Dell, HP, etc. to outfit with NI products and our customized LabVIEW software to ship to customers.  However, with the evolving priorities\standards of these consumer electronics level companies, it's become harder and harder to purchase a computer with the appropriate hardware and software requirements.  Things like serial ports, Windows XP, and multiple PCI slots have been pushed out in favor USB, Vista, and PCIe xN slots.  Because of this, we've decided to forego the comfort (and support) of these mainstream PC manufacturers and go with an industrial PC vendor.  Having no experience with these companies, I'm asking if any of you can recommend a good\popular industrial PC vendor that can meet the following requirements:

Dual Core (or Quad Core) Intel processor
2 GB RAM
2 Serial (RS 232) ports
SB sound card (integrated sound is not sufficient)
2 available PCI slots (for M series board and a 1410 video capture board)
AGP (any speed) or PCIe (any speed) slot for video board (integrated is not sufficient)
2 SATA hard drives (at least 200 GB) in a RAID 1 (mirroring) configuration
10\100\1000 ethernet LAN adaptor (preferably built in)
Windows XP

All help is appreciated.
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You're wrong in putting the blame with Dell and HP etc.    ALL mainboard manufacturers have been slowly cutting down on PCI slots, in favor of PCIe.   (Just like they have slowly removed ISA).   The same is going on with serial, with is slowly getting replaced by USB.

This is called progress. Smiley Wink Sure, it can be annoying, but it's inevitable.   Also, a mainboard that has both the new standards, and all of the old ones, would be rediculously big and expensive.     Can you imagine a mainboard with 8 ISA, 5 PCI , 1x AGP and all the modern PCIe slots?   Smiley Very Happy

Some suppliers might deliver exotic mainboards that give what you want.... but they tend to be rare and expensive.  

There are other solutions to your problems.   There's USB to serial converters.   There's also PCIe to PCI extention boxes.  (One PCIe to 4 PCI in a seperate case)

 

I do agree that it's strange that mainboards are removing the serial ports.   I'd rather have them remove the parallel port.   I can't remember the last time I used that one, and it takes lots of space...   While serial ports are used for lots of things.   (Not just instrument control)

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Industrial computer manufacturers still make highly configurable PCs. You can get any variety of PCI/PCIe/ISA as well as serial ports, and even floppy drives.
 
Check:
 
BSI Computers
http://www.bsicomputer.com/
 
Core Systems USA
 
I've dealt with both directly. Core systems most recently who I had a very pleasant experience with.
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Formerly ICS-Advent, I have used them a few times with good results and some hard to find mobo configs (even still have ISA slots on some offerings)

http://us.kontron.com/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It’s the questions that drive us.”
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Checkout Dell Precision Workstations.  I just bought one (a Precision 390) for work that has a dual-core (quad available), 2 drives configured for RAID1 (4 SATA hard drives possible, RAID 0/1/5/10 possible), 3 PCI slots, 2 PCIe (I think 1 is used for video), integrated 1G NIC, with WinXP.  Sound is integrated (with internal speaker), but it can be upgraded to a PCI sound card.
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I've used quite a few ICS-Advent/Kontron and recently got some from Industrial Computer. Your other option would be to buy an empty chassis and find a suitable motherboard.
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Hi

don't forget: to consider is support !

With the likes of HP & Dell  you have 24 /7 support ( if your prepared  to pay the cost ). 

When you burning up to 50000$ of fuel  an hour  your can't ask them to stop while you
check out  a PC fault !

 We use both industrial PC systems and  major manufactures to cover our needs!


just my 25 øre worth.

xseadog
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Yuri,

I understand your frustation, in addition another more commonly cited aspect is the fast moving pace of the mainstream consumer PC market that churns every 6 months. This means even if you do find a suitable machine, it won't stay around long enough for you standardize on it!

 

As a general poll, for you and other readers/subscribers to this thread, can I get a virtual show of hands on how many of you think NI should be offering some sort of industrial PC, and if you think we should, what are the salient characteristics - price, features, long life, environmental spec, etc. etc.? No promises, but we are aware of these issues and are surveying the options.

 

Kind Regards

 

TIm Fountain  

Product Strategy
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Thanks so far for the vendor suggestions.  I've started looking into them.  BTW, I'm aware of USB\RS-232 converters, but the data we stream via serial ports is time critical, and I can't be sure how fast and jittery those converters are.  This is also the reason we use a dedicated audio card for sound output--most integrated audio solutions have issues with poor timing.


Tim--

I like NI's input/output products (DAQ boards, video capture boards, etc.).  The products you release are stable, well supported, have mature drivers, and stick around a long time.  We use them to interface with machines that are expected to run for a *long* time, and whose hardware interfaces remain consistent over that time, and consequently, use older interface technology (serial ports, raw analog channels with BNC connectors, etc.).  In our particular case, we interface with MRI scanners, whose lifetime is usually 10-15 years, and we cannot afford much downtime.

I'm a big fan of improving computer technologies (faster\more processors, more RAM, etc.).  In fact, I've written our software to take advantage of the parallel processing optimizations built into LV.  But for industrial applications, it's the *interfaces* that are the slowest to change.  We use your M-series boards for DAQ, which I imagine are one of the most popular products you sell (prior to that, we used your E series boards, but changed because of the new features and competitive prices offered with the M series).  M-series boards connect via standard PCI slots.  If computer vendors are moving to phase out PCI (in favor of PCIe, for example), then we need either a computer that preserves PCI slots, or an evolved M-series board that plugs into PCIe (and doesn't require big changes to the LV software that's already built).

If NI plans to offer PCs, then the general rule of thumb should be to offer the latest and greatest in computing technologies (faster\multicore CPUs, more RAM, decent video card support, fast hard drives, RAID support, etc.), but to preserve the tried and true interfaces that many industrial machines use (RS-232, PCI, etc.).  I don't need 100s of USB ports, I don't need optical audio outputs, and I don't need SLI\dual-video card support.  And please, for our sanity, offer only operating systems that have been out in the market for a long time and have proven relatively stable (and aren't bloated with useless pre-installed software).  I'll venture into Vista when it's been around for a few years and multiple service packs have been issued.  The mainstream computer vendors don't even offer XP anymore.

I guess what I'm looking for is the power of a high end gaming\workstation PC without all the unnecissary extras that such machines are bloated with.  Instead, I'd want the hardware interfaces that the majority of industrial machinery out in the real world use.  That way, we can connect to all the devices we need to, yet still take advantage of all the advances and optimizations that you guys have worked so hard to put in LabVIEW, DAQmx, Vision, etc.  When it comes to high-quality, stable PCs that can last in an industrial environment, I'm willing to pay the price for a long term investment.

Message Edited by Yuri33 on 10-20-2007 02:43 AM

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@Tim Fountain wrote:

As a general poll, for you and other readers/subscribers to this thread, can I get a virtual show of hands on how many of you think NI should be offering some sort of industrial PC, and if you think we should, what are the salient characteristics - price, features, long life, environmental spec, etc. etc.? No promises, but we are aware of these issues and are surveying the options.



My hand is UP..!!  You are close to this already with the PXI / CompactPCI products...  WHat would be nice is a hybrid chassis that would support other PCI cards or even some legacy cards... You'd be surprised what we see at customers these days!!  Some clients are still running Win-95 because of legacy code.

I think this would go well if the price range (excluding monitor, keyboard, mouse) was between $1-2K.

I will soon be purchasing rack-mounted industrial PC's within the next 6 months (actually two).  This will be an interesting topic for myself, as well.

🙂

 

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