LabVIEW subscription model for 2022

[Intaris]

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@AhmedEisawy wrote:

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The plan was to have our sellers call (not email) customers requesting quotes to discuss the full price and immediately (in the same call) talk about discounting options.

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OK, I think the difference is starting to crystallise out.  What you outline here seems quite reasonable to me. This is what I would have classified under "proactive" from NI/Emerson and would definitely generate a different experience.

However, I think here is where the difference is creeping in. I can only speak for our case, but this is definitely NOT what happened in our case. If we didn't actively contact NI about further discounts (and without this thread would have been completely unaware of the notion) no other communication took place. The difference in NI/Emerson being proactive or being passive creates the "haggling" aspect of things and that's a shame.

But I think I now understand where the issue with "haggling" is coming from. It was never a major sticking point, it just added unnecessary fuel to the negativity when we see such discrepancies with forum descriptions that just don't match. In that moment, one would normally appeal to goodwill and trust in NI/Emerson to paper over the cracks. But unfortunately, goodwill is at a low-point and these issues are all starting to generate negativity unnecessarily where they might not have 15 years ago. And of course the catch 22 is that it's hard to generate goodwill when the lack of goodwill is part of the problem..... Only clear communication and care coupled with thoroughness in execution can turn things around.

[softball]

Hi

This subject has so many aspects. LabVIEW perpetual or subscription license is only one.

How about SSP. Will it return ?

- If you kept yourself on the SSP train every year you got it for a fair price ( ~ 1/4 of a full new license ) but if you skipped a year you had to buy a new full priced license. In fairness, you would be warned before.

- Nobody has an active SSP anymore but will a subscription count as such ?

- And if you skipped a subscription renewal a year can you then still get back on the SSP train without paying full for a new license ?

How about toolkits. Will they be perpetual too ?

Many toolkits has been abandoned. And development on those remaining seems reduced to a crawl. In compliance to the stated 'focus on core functionality' for LabVIEW. The now fully implemented AddOn concept for the remaining toolkits ( and modules ) means that NI gets paid every year for any use of these stalled toolkits without even being required to release a new version matching the current LabVIEW version. Nice business model.

- So, will these toolkits also be offered with a perpetual licensed and an SSP option as before ?

- If not, then we will have the same access problem using a perpetual LabVIEW version and any subscription based toolkit. A solution for this is needed.

Other Applications.

Other Applications like TestStand possibly has similar issues. But clarification of the LabVIEW related solution could probably extend to those other applications.

Regards

[AhmedEisawy]

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@Intaris wrote:

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@AhmedEisawy wrote:

---

The plan was to have our sellers call (not email) customers requesting quotes to discuss the full price and immediately (in the same call) talk about discounting options.

---

OK, I think the difference is starting to crystallise out.  What you outline here seems quite reasonable to me. This is what I would have classified under "proactive" from NI/Emerson and would definitely generate a different experience.

However, I think here is where the difference is creeping in. I can only speak for our case, but this is definitely NOT what happened in our case. If we didn't actively contact NI about further discounts (and without this thread would have been completely unaware of the notion) no other communication took place. The difference in NI/Emerson being proactive or being passive creates the "haggling" aspect of things and that's a shame.

But I think I now understand where the issue with "haggling" is coming from. It was never a major sticking point, it just added unnecessary fuel to the negativity when we see such discrepancies with forum descriptions that just don't match. In that moment, one would normally appeal to goodwill and trust in NI/Emerson to paper over the cracks. But unfortunately, goodwill is at a low-point and these issues are all starting to generate negativity unnecessarily where they might not have 15 years ago. And of course the catch 22 is that it's hard to generate goodwill when the lack of goodwill is part of the problem..... Only clear communication and care coupled with thoroughness in execution can turn things around.

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Well, it's on us (NI/Emerson) to regain your trust. It's as simple as that 🙂

I'm following up internally to ensure the teams adhere to the process we've outlined to proactively offer the discounts that meet your needs.

[Taggart]

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@Jay14159265 wrote:

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@Hooovahh wrote:

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@Eric1977 wrote:

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@rolfk wrote:

It leaves a very sour taste that the work you have done and which is legally yours, is not even viewable anymore and definitely not correctable.

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This right here is what scares/angers me and others. If I, or my company, wants the license to lapse, for any reason, I should be able, at the minimum, to view the code I wrote and not be locked out of it. I should not have to download some other software, provided by Emerson/NI or not, just so I can view it.

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One olive branch that NI did extend is you can use the LabVIEW Community Edition to open and view your code, if your subscription license has lapsed. This was put into the EULA and legal text of the usage of the community edition which is free to download.

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I have used the community edition for this purpose. I have noticed that the community edition is not a perpetual licence so after it expires you can no longer open labview and you must get and install a new community edition licence. Getting this licence to work is not easy, I was down for 2 days trying to get this to work and ended up having to uninstall all NI products and re installing to be able to open labview. The point is that after all that I have zero confidence that I can use the community edition currently installed on a lab computer to view code after a year or two much less in perpetuity.

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The fact that NI markets Community Edition as a way of recruiting new LabVIEW Developers into the community and then puts so many hurdles in their way is mind-boggling. It's almost as if they want newcomers to give up on the idea and never even try it out. I guess maybe that is good filtering? Anyone who bothers to jump through all the hoops must really be interested!

[Taggart]

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@pxiCarsten wrote:

This thread is record long, showing the passionate desire  to continue to be enthusiastic about LabVIEW. 

But these vocal ones typically are less than 1% of the users. NI should be more concerned about the remaining 99% who are silent , and many of these have already quietly LabVIEW and  NI.

This thread is just the canary in the coal mine.

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I've often told NI, that if the complaining suddenly stops it doesn't mean the problems are solved. It means no one cares anymore.

[Taggart]

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@Intaris wrote:

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I was just talking with my colleagues over lunch and my personal position is that it's NOT only the price which has created the problem, but it's this kind of communication which had seriously eroded our ability to trust what we're being told. 

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Lack of clear communication has been NI's main problem for the past decade. Clear communication could have avoided a lot of the upset in the community. 90% of NI's problems and the lack of trust is due to poor or non-existent communication from NI. It is all self-inflicted. It is painful to watch.

[AhmedEisawy]

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@softball wrote:

Hi

This subject has so many aspects. LabVIEW perpetual or subscription license is only one.

How about SSP. Will it return ?

- If you kept yourself on the SSP train every year you got it for a fair price ( ~ 1/4 of a full new license ) but if you skipped a year you had to buy a new full priced license. In fairness, you would be warned before.

- Nobody has an active SSP anymore but will a subscription count as such ?

- And if you skipped a subscription renewal a year can you then still get back on the SSP train without paying full for a new license ?

How about toolkits. Will they be perpetual too ?

Many toolkits has been abandoned. And development on those remaining seems reduced to a crawl. In compliance to the stated 'focus on core functionality' for LabVIEW. The now fully implemented AddOn concept for the remaining toolkits ( and modules ) means that NI gets paid every year for any use of these stalled toolkits without even being required to release a new version matching the current LabVIEW version. Nice business model.

- So, will these toolkits also be offered with a perpetual licensed and an SSP option as before ?

- If not, then we will have the same access problem using a perpetual LabVIEW version and any subscription based toolkit. A solution for this is needed.

Other Applications.

Other Applications like TestStand possibly has similar issues. But clarification of the LabVIEW related solution could probably extend to those other applications.

Regards

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Re: SSP

As I shared before on the forum, SSP is included in all perpetual development licenses (included for free in the first year) and we encourage customers to renew it in the following years to benefit from getting access to latest releases, technical support and online trainings.

If you already have your perpetual license but your SSP has expired, we're running a promotion where you can renew your SSP now without any late fees. If you're interested, please reach out to NI's renewals team to request to renew your expired SSP.

Re: Toolkits

Great feedback. Short answer is, yes, we plan to assess the existing toolkits to decide on which to provide perpetual options. If you have specific kits in mind, please message me directly.

Re: Other Applications

Test software (Teststand et al.) also have perpetual options. You don't see a request for quote link on ni.com yet for them but when you talk to NI sellers, you can request quote for any of them, along with LabVIEW.

[TiTou]

@EricR

Sorry, I'm drifting off the main topic a bit

I have questions about the Community Edition :

- is there a way to compile an application or a shared library using LabVIEW Community Edition?

- for a LabVIEW enthusiast - who is not using LabVIEW professionnaly / commercially - is there a way - without paying any $ to NI - to compile an application or shared library?

For that matter, does it make any difference for NI is one want to build an application or shared library that doesn't use any NI driver or any NI Toolkit, just the primitives that ship with LabVIEW Community Edition ?

The use case I have in mind is developing open source code with LabVIEW and compiling Shared Libraries for Windows or Linux that anyone could then call from a C built app.

[crossrulz]

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@TiTou wrote:

I have questions about the Community Edition :

- is there a way to compile an application or a shared library using LabVIEW Community Edition?

- for a LabVIEW enthusiast - who is not using LabVIEW professionnaly / commercially - is there a way - without paying any $ to NI - to compile an application or shared library?

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My understanding is that Community Edition is exactly the same as Pro, except a non-commercial license.  This includes the application builder.  I'll try to dig up something to confirm this (possibly a test laptop or a VM from CTI).

[LVNinja]

Just to clarify, renewing SSP, with an existing perpetual license, will allow us to keep using LabVIEW after 1 year ? Is it just a way to have the latest versions (and previous) of LabVIEW (Within 1 year) and keep using it forever after that ?