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LabVIEW subscription model for 2022

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Most of the candidates we brought into GE Research in the last decade + had Matlab experience, and the new kids all know python.  I fought to get a VLA at the center.  It only gained traction because Matlab licenses were limited and hard to check out. A standalone Matlab license required VP signature.  It's hard to say how much longer they will keep the VLA.  Matlab is miserable at industrial control, and I/O modules / industrial controls don't exist, but it may open doors for third party suppliers to make Matlab more suitable for industrial environments, further eroding NI position.  At this point (having retired to private practice) I can only sit back and watch. 

Message 391 of 490
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I've been following every post here in this thread. No involvement, no explanation, no commitment, no positioning, no "hope" here from NI people. Frustrating, irritating and a nightmare for young devs starting their careers. Some of the “LV-25 Years Top People” in “our” community here gave clear, personal, and honest feedback. Does NI somehow cancel us here ;-)? Are you listening carefully? I like to use Occam's razor here: no conspiracy needed, it's just mediocre management that eventually takes over and silences the devs and tec people. Lots of companies were there. I've seen companies - not just literally - loosing millions of $ (+ their best people...) following the BS narratives and "innovative" ego-driven advice of young controllers and managers. I'm done with mngmnt BS bingo. I've just retired now. Thank you NI. No fight, no hope that they move anymore. And how could NI possibly fix the already burned image in the dev community?! I stopped promoting NI/LV to young engineers a few years ago. I see some of my customers also moving away from LV as a result of NI's current moves. I also believe that LV's code base is a mess that cannot be open source for a number of reasons. My guess: Sales will peak for a while and that's it. A lot of the people I know are now freezing their "personal licenses". Worst: My customers do this. Simply frustrating. As I wrote here, I started recognizing the scaring single vendor lock-in a decade ago but tried to lie to myself about it giving me sleepless nights back in 2013. We have to be realistic here. They are slowly killing "our" ecosystem; red handed. Excuse the long post, but these NI-moves still drive me crazy a bit and I "just don't get it" as an European engineer and a simple high-energy experimental physicist from next door 😉 ... We had great times a decade ago! EOT.

Being a swiss knife for half a century...
Message 392 of 490
(879 Views)

@Gribo wrote:

Here is the relevant LAVA thread: Using VISA Find Resource for PXI Devices - Hardware - LAVA (lavag.org)


The content of that thread is rather troublesome.

Sam Taggart
CLA, CPI, CTD, LabVIEW Champion
DQMH Trusted Advisor
Read about my thoughts on Software Development at sasworkshops.com/blog
GCentral
Message 393 of 490
(862 Views)

@Data-MetaData wrote:

I've been following every post here in this thread. No involvement, no explanation, no commitment, no positioning, no "hope" here from NI people. Frustrating, irritating and a nightmare for young devs starting their careers. Some of the “LV-25 Years Top People” in “our” community here gave clear, personal, and honest feedback. Does NI somehow cancel us here ;-)? Are you listening carefully? I like to use Occam's razor here: no conspiracy needed, it's just mediocre management that eventually takes over and silences the devs and tec people. Lots of companies were there. I've seen companies - not just literally - loosing millions of $ (+ their best people...) following the BS narratives and "innovative" ego-driven advice of young controllers and managers. I'm done with mngmnt BS bingo. I've just retired now. Thank you NI. No fight, no hope that they move anymore. And how could NI possibly fix the already burned image in the dev community?! I stopped promoting NI/LV to young engineers a few years ago. I see some of my customers also moving away from LV as a result of NI's current moves. I also believe that LV's code base is a mess that cannot be open source for a number of reasons. My guess: Sales will peak for a while and that's it. A lot of the people I know are now freezing their "personal licenses". Worst: My customers do this. Simply frustrating. As I wrote here, I started recognizing the scaring single vendor lock-in a decade ago but tried to lie to myself about it giving me sleepless nights back in 2013. We have to be realistic here. They are slowly killing "our" ecosystem; red handed. Excuse the long post, but these NI-moves still drive me crazy a bit and I "just don't get it" as an European engineer and a simple high-energy experimental physicist from next door 😉 ... We had great times a decade ago! EOT.


I feel like there was an official, stickied thread that was the result of this discussion, but the lame reasons for how it was beneficial to the customer basically got laughed at.  I guess they unpinned it and let it sink.

Bill
CLD
(Mid-Level minion.)
My support system ensures that I don't look totally incompetent.
Proud to say that I've progressed beyond knowing just enough to be dangerous. I now know enough to know that I have no clue about anything at all.
Humble author of the CLAD Nugget.
Message 394 of 490
(851 Views)

You're not pointing to the pinned thread on Page 1, are you?

 

Eric1977_0-1660135886171.png

 

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Message 395 of 490
(746 Views)

@Eric1977 wrote:

You're not pointing to the pinned thread on Page 1, are you?

 

Eric1977_0-1660135886171.png

 


I found it here.  I had forgotten you can look up a user and see their posts.

Bill
CLD
(Mid-Level minion.)
My support system ensures that I don't look totally incompetent.
Proud to say that I've progressed beyond knowing just enough to be dangerous. I now know enough to know that I have no clue about anything at all.
Humble author of the CLAD Nugget.
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Message 396 of 490
(692 Views)

Hello all LabView Experts,

 

could anybody summerize this long thread in few senteces please?

What ist the current status?

 

Thank you and BR

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eugen Wiebe
Bernstein AG
CLAD - Certified LabView Associate Developer
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Message 397 of 490
(554 Views)

I'll give it a go:

- Absolute silence from NI regarding the criticism around subscription model, which is a considerable price hike for a lot of people. People dislike the mafia attitude of the new model (pay or no more access to your source code)

- There's significant community uproar about that, even among very senior community members; some people are sitting this problem out because they're due to retire; people who have invested some years into LabVIEW and still have many work years to go are quite upset because it looks like a career breaker.

- Some folks don't recommend LabVIEW for new projects anymore. Some say it'll be like COBOL: a very specialized language that's going into obscurity, but still used to drive critical systems.

- There's talk of language alternatives, mostly Python or .NET as successor.

- There are some off-topic discussions regarding gRPC and some other stuff in there. But I guess that's the summary of this thread. People are pissed.

----------
Although I've been 10+ years long fan of LabVIEW, I started to discourage engineers to start new projects in a SaaS language. NI must first regain trust within its community.
Message 398 of 490
(525 Views)

@benjamin-hinrichs wrote:

I'll give it a go:

- Absolute silence from NI regarding the criticism around subscription model, which is a considerable price hike for a lot of people. People dislike the mafia attitude of the new model (pay or no more access to your source code)

- There's significant community uproar about that, even among very senior community members; some people are sitting this problem out because they're due to retire; people who have invested some years into LabVIEW and still have many work years to go are quite upset because it looks like a career breaker.

- Some folks don't recommend LabVIEW for new projects anymore. Some say it'll be like COBOL: a very specialized language that's going into obscurity, but still used to drive critical systems.

- There's talk of language alternatives, mostly Python or .NET as successor.

- There are some off-topic discussions regarding gRPC and some other stuff in there. But I guess that's the summary of this thread. People are pissed.


Overall that's not a bad summary.

 

It's hard to defend NI on this one. To be fair to them, on "the losing access to your code if you stop your subscription", there is actually a debug license that is worth looking into. They have done a very poor job of making that well-known, but it does exist just for that situation. You have a LabVIEW program, no longer have a subscription and just want to make a small tweak without buying a whole new subscription.

 

"Debug licenses (sometimes referred to as debug/deployment licenses) are used to fix issues on an application or system that has already been created with a development license. Typically debug licenses are used when you have deployed an application and you need to periodically resolve issues with the code.

Debug licenses are sold with a Standard Service Program (SSP) contract."

 

See

https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/documentation/supplemental/09/deployment-and-debug-licenses-for-ni-...

and

https://www.ni.com/en-us/support/documentation/supplemental/22/ni-software-subscription-and-applicat...

 

So if that is your own only issue with the new subscription (and not the price or the way it was rolled out or any of the other issues) then it's not really anything to worry about. If you care about any of those other issues, then yeah still plenty of reason to be upset.

Sam Taggart
CLA, CPI, CTD, LabVIEW Champion
DQMH Trusted Advisor
Read about my thoughts on Software Development at sasworkshops.com/blog
GCentral
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Message 399 of 490
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from the second link

 

"A debug/deployment license has a one-time cost and is not affected by subscription. Once you purchase and deploy a debug/deployment license, your end user application will not be affected.

These licenses include a complete installation of the NI software you used to create your application, along with your code, that your end user can use to debug your application."

Sam Taggart
CLA, CPI, CTD, LabVIEW Champion
DQMH Trusted Advisor
Read about my thoughts on Software Development at sasworkshops.com/blog
GCentral
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Message 400 of 490
(504 Views)