LabVIEW Real-Time Idea Exchange

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When developing RT code (especially system upgrades) it would be truly helpful to have a virtual machine (VMware, MS Virtual PC, Sun Virtual box, etc....) that would allow us to run the actual VxWorks OS and LVRT in it's native environment, within the Windows OS. This would allow the code to run on the actual RTOS (I realize that determinism would be scacrificed) and provide the ability to actually test the functionality of the code in the actual environment to ensure that it runs as it should. It would also preclude the need to have a bunch of RT controllers sitting on the shelf in the event that you might need them.

 

There is and emulator for PDA module, why not for RT.

It should be nice to add a new "Build specification" in Labview RT which could generated something like a RT Target installer.

 

This installer could contain ...

 

  • The application to download
  • The drivers required
  • Additionnal custom files and directories
  • The default setting of the target ( Like the MAX target configuration)

 

When the installer is executed, it should be nice to show all the available targets ( Like in Max ).

The user should have to select the destination Target in this list.

Then it should be nice to show the target configuration (like in Max), initialized with the setting contained in the installer.

 

An installation could be like this ...

 

  1. Launching the installer
  2. The installer lists all available (and compatible) targets
  3. The user has to choose a target
  4. After target selection, the installer should view the target configuration ( as defined in the Labview project Build specification properties )
  5. The user could then modify some parameters (like IP address)
  6. After validating the configuration, the installer should
  7. Install the drivers ... and perhaps the OS itself (as required by the project)
  8. Modify the target parameters 
  9. Install the application
  10. Set Time/hour according to host target
  11. Download custom files and directories ..
  12. ...
  13. And restart the target

This feature could be an easy way to deploy RT application without having a Labview RT installed on the host computer.

A RT application could be installed completely by a final customer of the application, without having to install the Target, drivers ...

This could also be nice to clone many times a RT application.

 

 

 

 

 

Currently, if you have hardware in a LabVIEW project (e.g. a cRIO controller, cRIO chassis, or R-Series PXI card), the only way that you can change this to another product is by adding a new one to the project and deleting the old one. It would be nice to be able to use a configuration window to change the model number of a piece of hardware to a different, but similar one. For example, if you have a 9072 in the project but wanted to change it to a 9073. Another example would be the ability to change, via menus, a PXI 7813R to a 7854R. Of course the user would have to update any code written to account for changes due to the new hardware. This is especially convenient when you are simulating and configuring test systems but aren't quite sure exactly what hardware you need. Currently, for each new piece of hardware (similar or not) you have to create a new device and copy all of the IO, VIs, libraries, etc. under the new device in the project.

When working in the Windows development environment the application builder has the ability to implement a version number for the built executable. Additionally LabVIEW has the ability to querry this version number through a property node. I would like to see this feature carried over to RT systems as well. It would be very helpful in determining what particular build of the startup.rtexe file is running on the target.

 

I am often working with a compact RIO and I need to change the IP configuration or the software settings. Currently I have to open up MAX refresh my target list (which can sometime take a minute or two since we have so many targets). Then open up the RT target settings.

 

 

I think the IP address and software settings should be accessible from the project window by right-clicking on the target and selecting properties.

The MAX settings page could be reproduced in the general settings section that all ready has a limited ability to edit the IP.

You could also add a  software category, so you could update the version of RIO or install scan engine.RT Target Properties Window.PNG

Message Edited by Hueter on 10-29-2009 11:58 AM
Message Edited by Hueter on 10-29-2009 11:58 AM
It is allmost impossible to find errors in "Reentrant SUBVI's" without the debugging possiblities.
 
 
 
 

If you get errors when deploying your real-time VI, you have to scroll through a small window and many many lines of messages to find the error that's in bold text... often only to find that it's just the "startup application is missing" error. It would be better to have a separate box where the errors are summarized for you.

Message Edited by Laura F. on 10-09-2009 09:01 AM

Hi !

With the linux-based cRIOs the console ("Write To Monitor" ; as intended before working with VxWorks/PharLaps OS) disappeared.

It's only possible to have strings pushed to the RS ports or in a (not managed) file.

 

As many cRIOs are connected to the network, it would be nice to have the "Write To Monitor" console access through Ethernet port.

The idea would be also to keep the global functionnalities of this console : see the strings in the cRIO webpage (of course), but also keep strings in a managed file (max number of logs in a file, ...) to have a 'buffered' access to strings sent to the console...

 

In brief, bring us back the 'Console' !! Smiley Happy

Currently, you can view the console from MAX, but if you don't know what buttons to press... lets just say it's in there somewhere. My idea is to make it more accessible, such as a right mouse button feature off the RT Target.

 

View Console.png

Hello,

 

It should be nice to be abble to duplicate a CRio target easily. 

 

=> Be abble to duplicate the Target

=> Be abble to duplicate the backplane configuration

=> Be abble to duplicate a FPGA target

 

It should also be nice to be able to change easily ...

 

=> The CRIo type

=> The CRio backplane type

 

Some commands to manipulate targets are missing ... or are hidden  ...

 

For example the copy/paste commands are available by key stroke ... but are not visible thru the Labview project treeview context menu.Smiley Sad

 

I think that the usability of the targets manipulations should be improved. Smiley Wink

 

Thanks for help.

 

Manu.net 

When running a VI in development mode while targeting an RT device, you must "Save All" prior to deployment. This is annoying, especially when using SCC. I'm sure that SourceOnly will minimize this effect in LV2010, but the concept still remains: I don't want to be forced to Save All when I don't want my edits (or automatic linking edits) to persist.

When I choose to "Stop waiting and disconnect" from an RT system that is unresponsive, suppress the dialog box that fires immediately afterward saying that the connection has been lost.....I already know that, I am the one who asked for the disconnection.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a native LabVIEW XML parser available on real-time targets? Storing your config data in XML rather than in Config-ini files is more flexible, techniques like XMLRPC would be easier to implement etc.
Yes I  know about the third party EasyXML library, but I don't want to spend extra money as we are already paying for LabVIEW 😉

I really miss the ability to debug reentrant VIs in LabVIEW real-time. Currently there is no way at all, short of indirect probing by programming your own debug functionality (logging of some sort).

 

I understand there are inherent difficulties in this, since LV RT systems are typically headless, and definitely GUI-less (except for maybe www-access).

 

But, maybe if we had a way to send a BD reference to a Host PC, the block diagram could be opened there? Something like an Open.BD method with a "destination" input on it? Then the reentrant VI could open its own BD on another LabVIEW instance running Desktop LV.

Sometimes, you really just want a RT front panel. Of course, there is no real front panel, but when you run in interactive mode Labview is automatically setting up network communication to pull data from the RT target and push data to the RT target. Wouldn't it be great if you could just convert that whole front panel into a basic host VI? Right now, you have to manually convert all controls and indicators to shared variables. Granted, this does force you to be very careful about limiting the number of network-shared items that you have, but sometimes you really just want to run the VI in interactive mode...but deployed.

Untitled.png

 

Or, better than that, convert everything into a web service and automatically build a silverlight UI (using Web UI Builder) which is hosted on the cRIO. Anything that provides you with a quick and easy way to convert from the rt debugging UI to a basic host VI would be great.

Given a project topology like this:

 

Windows PC Host  <-> cRIO-9024 <-> NI-9114 backplane <-> NI-9144 EtherCAT #1 <-> NI-9144 EtherCAT #2   which is run in hybrid scan mode,   during development I wish that it were possible to, for example, tell the project to run without EtherCAT #2 being physically connected, instead using virtual/simulated IO. As things stand now, when I try to switch from Configuration to Active mode, I get an error saying that "the slave device cannot be found".

 

More generally, I often find myself thinking that the project explorer needs a good way to "comment out" various pieces of the project without having to resort to "Remove From Project".

On all of the RT platforms, if the CPU maxes out at 100% the RTOS goes through a sort of "load shedding" and begins suspending non critical threads to lower the CPU overhead and hopefully maintain determinism. One of the first threads that gets suspended is the TCP thread which essentially cuts off the RT target from the ethernet and outside world.

 

While I understand the concept of the load shedding, I believe that if you have the CPU pushed that hard, then your determinism is out the window anyway. Dropping the TCP thread only serves to disconnect the RT system from the development environment or the built application with no real benefit. I have yet to see a single application that was actually able to accomplish anything substantial after the point that the TCP thread was suspended. In most cases, the high CPU usage happens during the development of the application or when something is critically wrong with the setup of the deployed app. In those cases, it wouldn't matter how many threads you suspended, the CPU will still be maxed out.

 

It is akin to blowing out a match in the midst of a forrest fire.

 

I would propose that the RTOS be reconfigured to show the TCP thread as one of the critical threads and keep it from being suspended during high CPU excursions OR give the developer the option to turn this feature on or off throgh the device properties.

Hello,

 

It would be nice to had the ability to create more than one RT target in a project with the same IP address.

For the moment, if you try to use 2 same IP address, The LabVIEW IDE don't let you save your modifications ! Smiley Sad

 

You may say WTF !!!! The manu has so curious ideas !!!!

 

My need is for example to had 2 configurations for 1 only RT CRio.

 

  • 1 configuration in Scan Interface 
  • 1 configuration in FPGA interface

Or an other way to use multiples targets ...

 

  • 1 project linking to Version 1 sources
  • 1 project linking to Version 2 sources

Yopu may say this can be done by using different build specifications.

 

I will say yes ... But my need is to separate the two versions of LabVIEW sources !

=> 1 project/target linked to an autopopulating folder in version a

=> 1 project/target linked to an autopopulating folder in version b

 

=> So my need is to be abble to use RT Targets as "Target versions"

=> To be abble to do this ... i need to create multiple targets with identical IP addresses. Smiley Wink

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Manu.

It would be very convenient if we could format and install the OS/RTE on a target directly from the project window.

 

Currently, if I'm about to deploy a new application I typically format the target, install the OS software on it, then I deploy the application onto it...and finally I make an image of it that will serve as a way for others to deploy the application to production targets.

 

This involves use of NI MAX (format and install OS), LabVIEW (deply app) and RAD (make image). Doing all these operations (image-making as well would be great) from LabVIEW would make the workflow much nicer.

 

PS. In the project window today you have Utilities>>System Manager. The described operations should be available directly from the menu, but it would also feel natural to have these options from the system manager.

I do not know about most people use cases with RT system, but I have the reflex to click the run arrow to test all my VIs. When I am on site and I do have access to the hardware, everything is rosy. But, when I do not have access to the hardware, and depending on the system complexity, I now have to wait up to over a minutes before I can resume working. It would be nice if somehow once I realized my mistake I could notified LabVIEW (right away) to run my VI in the main application instance instead of attempting to deploy it on the missing target.

Alternatively, once I made the mistake once, LabVIEW could automatically run the VI in the main application instance.

I do not know what is the best approach to fix this, but I know that I am very annoyed every time I make that mistake.