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max. Groups and Channels?

Hi,

 

Simple Question:

 

What are the maximum Number of Groups and Channels that i can load/use in the DataPortal?

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Message 1 of 14
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Hi mkraft,

 

DIAdem can handle at any one time up to 65000 (2^16) channels, and each channel can have up to 2 billion (2^31) values.  Those channels can be spread over any number of groups in the Data Portal-- I am unaware of a limitation in the number of possible groups.  For fun, I wrote a little 5 line VBScript to programmatically create 70000 empty groups in the Data Portal, and it worked just fine.  So you can at the very least have each of your maximum 65000 channels in its own group, with quite a few empty groups to spare.

 

Brad Turpin
DIAdem Product Support Engineer
National Instruments

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Message 2 of 14
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Hi,

 

thanks a lot for the fast answer.

 

regards

mkraft

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Message 3 of 14
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Hi Brad,

 

I recently hit 65535 channels with DIAdem 10.2 and the problem is that I need at least 10000 more.Is this limitation fixed in the next versions (e.g. 11 or above) or when is it going to be fixed??

In case its only for ceratain versions I'll have to order a new version of the programm. Please let me know asap.

Thanks in advance

 

MfG

 

 

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Message 4 of 14
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Hi fscommand,

 

This limitation has not changed in DIAdem 11.x, nor is it likely to change in the next few versions.  In fact, you're the first customer I can remember who's actually wanted to load more than 65k channels at one time.  Why DO you need to load 75k channels at one time?  Are you looking at just the properties of those channels, or are you actually looking at the data arrays of all those channels?  What are you doing with all the channels-- analysis, graphing, what?  It's possible that we can define a process that will accomplish your goal without loading 75k channels into DIAdem at once (which is not an option).

 

Brad Turpin

DIAdem Product Support Engineer
National Instruments

Message 5 of 14
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Brad Turpin wrote:

 

Hi fscommand,

 

This limitation has not changed in DIAdem 11.x, nor is it likely to change in the next few versions.  In fact, you're the first customer I can remember who's actually wanted to load more than 65k channels at one time.  Why DO you need to load 75k channels at one time?  Are you looking at just the properties of those channels, or are you actually looking at the data arrays of all those channels?  What are you doing with all the channels-- analysis, graphing, what?  It's possible that we can define a process that will accomplish your goal without loading 75k channels into DIAdem at once (which is not an option).


Hi Brad,

 

I'm looking at the data arrays of all these >65K channels. I'm using them for plotting,analysis and I generate result channels. The problem came out at the moment I built additional text channel for each test that I load. And I wasn't able to load all my tests. The thing is that I become *.xml files from a tester, so far the 65k limit I reached with only 1/5 of all tests which will be availbale at the final version of this *.xml file.For each temperature I get a file, overal 5 files for 5 temperatures.In theory if I get all the files loaded in DIAdem I should be able to generate an automatic report for all blocks and tests of the current project.So having only 65K channels is a major problem for me. Another things is the number of pages in a report - I found out the limit to be around 350 pages, but this is another story.

So do you have any ideas how can overcome the 65k barrier?Thanks in advance.

 

In case this is not possible I'll have to speak with our project managers and maybe look for other program solution.

 

Have a nice day

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Message 6 of 14
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Hi fscommand,

 

Please feel free to email me directly about this at brad.turpin@ni.com.  How many data points do you have in each channel?  What will you want to do with the new text channel in each file?  How are you planning to plot 65k channels in DIAdem, since there is a 250 curve limitation on each DIAdem graph?

 

It would be really helpful if you could either send me a representative set of these data files or describe more exactly what is in them.  I strongly suspect that we can find a way to do what you want in DIAdem with the 80k channels you have in all these files, but I won't know what path to take until I understand better what's in the data files and what the desired DIAdem output (graphs?) will look like.

 

Talk to you soon,

Brad Turpin
DIAdem Product Support Engineer

National Instruments

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Message 7 of 14
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Hi Brad,

 

sorry for not replying you yesterday, but I'm stuck in a workshop at the moment. I managed to speak with my group leader and project manager.So what came out is that the channel number will grow very much, above hundreds of thousands.Because we made a rough estimation for a single wafer -> which will have 500 device pieces.Each piece of device will have at least 30 blocks, and each block will have at least 15-20 different tests.Which brings a total number of around 300K channels, if only a single channel is created for each measurement.In my case I have to create 5 channels minimum.And this is only for a single temperature.When it comes to evaluating results for 5 different temperatures - it ends around 1.5Ms.At this in a LOT evaluation should be multiplyed by 24.

 

Due to security reasons I cannot send you a data sample.But I can give you an idea about it.The channels which I create when I read-in the *.xml files are five: 1 for the measured value,2 for the parameter ,3 for the device number,4 for the temperature and 5 for the test description.The channels are with different lenght - which can be from 3 to 300, depending on the test setup.

Since the tests are block oriented, for diffrent blocks I have different tests.So I won't plot them all on one graph but on number of.

Right now I use the device number as a group and I create all channels ( all tests ) for this device.At the very begining I had a different idea, where the test setups should be groups but then I found the problem that I couldn't have groups in the group, so I dropped this approach.

 

I know its hard to imagine sthg you cannot see, but I hope it was descriptive enough so you can have ideas for changing the concept or going around this channel number problem.

 

I'm not in the office right now, that why I wrote you here.But you can feel free to write me here or on my e-mail.

 

Have a nice day.

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Message 8 of 14
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Hi fscommand,

 

You used a couple of terms in your latest post that made me wonder if your data is record-based rather than transducer-based.  Are you talking about manufacturing-type data where you measure N scalar quantities for X devices/UUTs, such that if you were to create an ASCII file of these test results you would have N columns and X rows in the file, where each row would be a record of all the scalar measurements for that particular device/UUT?  If this is the case, then you don't want to create X data channels in DIAdem that each have N values or properties, but rather you want to import N data channels that each have X values in them into DIAdem.  Usually the number of scalar measurements N is much smaller than the number of devices/UUTs measured X, so there would be no problem with the number of data channels in DIAdem.  Furthermore, in this case you typically want to correlate similar measurements based on setup condition (set temperature, lot number, applied voltage or whatever).  So you don't REALLY want to load ALL of the X rows/records, you typically only want to load SELECTED rows/records based on various query conditions-- you end up in data base mode pretty quickly.  DIAdem has a solution for this, it involves first querying the selected rows with the DataFinder based on the desired setup conditions, then loading some or all N property columns for those queried rows/records into DIAdem data channels.

 

If this sounds like your data, then we're in business, but it will require that I write a DataPlugin for your data files.  You mentioned that they are in XML-- they wouldn't by any chance be standard TestStand XML report files, would they?

 

Brad Turpin

DIAdem Product Support Engineer
National Instruments

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Hi Brad,

 

thanks for the generous offer but I wrote my *.xml plugin already.It works fine if you neglect the program limitations.I used a standart xml plugin as a basis and then I extend it to fit

my needs.Luckily last friday, I managed to write from the SUD dialog in the *.xml plugin *.vbs file and now I can load my data for certain sets of tests for each device I have.It was a major problem I had for a long time.Thus I can never reach 65K channels and everyone is happy.The only problem is that I cannot generate a whole report including all test sets at the same time.But I think I can live with that.

Well thanks again.

 

Have a nice day

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Message 10 of 14
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