Awkward political question

[Intaris]

Ben, I can agree with nearly all of what you say (I'll just have to trust you on the back-woods of Pennsylvania ).

But while this is all correct for the technical level of things (What I know, what I can do, what I learn) this does not DIRECTLY put bread on the table.

There's a phrase in German called "Brotlose Kunst" which translated means something like "There's no money in art" or "Being an artist is a great way to starve for a living".  There's a transition to be made from ability to earnings and it's at this junction where I'm unsure as to the best way to continue.

So my original question was not whether sharing is of benefit on a technical level but rather whether sharing benefits on a financial level.

Shane.

[Ben]

Financial reward should not be reason to share but I can say that project work has been a side effect of my sharing. Enough to live off? Well if I was a on-man-shop, probably but that one-man-shop thing goes nowhere if if you don't have the spine to sue when not being paid (been ther done that).

Ben

[tbob]

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@Intaris wrote:

There's a phrase in German called "Brotlose Kunst" which translated means something like "There's no money in art" or "Being an artist is a great way to starve for a living". 

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If you consider art as just a painting or a sculture, then that statement is true.  However, I consider music as a form of art.  There are a lot of artists out there who are not starving, like rock bands and country stars and such.

I still don't care if I don't get paid to do what I like to do, and that is help others.  It makes me feel good, that's my reward. 

As for the original intent of this post, I don't think that I'm cutting my own throat by helping people from lesser developed countries to learn Labview.  Upper management thinks anyone can do this job.  They will outsource jobs because of financial considerations only.  They don't stop to think if the source has adequate abilities or not.  If they don't, they will find another outsourcer who does.  Even without our help, these lesser developed countries will come about on their own.  When all of our work goes overseas, so will I.

[Ray.R]

I just saw this thread and I read it as fast as I could (gotta get back to my non-LabVIEW job).

I have to agree with Shane.

Being on both sides of the fence (being the programmer and being the one to get the contracts), I've often asked myself the same question.  I also believe in what tbob discussed.  Well...  As a matter of fact, today's reality is that we helping to send our jobs away. But the matter is not that simple.  It's a highly complex topic where everyone on every side is wrong.  There are no right answer.  And depending on which camp your in you're going to convince other that you are right.

Sounds like religions, doesn't it?  😉  (I'd better put a wink here)

One thing I've noticed is that I do help others and I do get help here.  But the same is not necessarily true elsewhere.  You don't get that level of help when working with VxWorks.  When writing drivers.  And ...  well I'd better stop here.. 

Good post Shane, many kudos to you.  Like it or not, you tell the truth..Will it change anything.. Not likely ..  😄

[Intaris]

Tbob,

I didn't mean to take a swipe at art as a whole but the phrase refers to something which, while admittedly aesthetic, has no financial benefit to anyone.  This is, as you have pointed out, not representative of all art but is merely a sub-set of it.

An example of the usage of this phrase would be in soccer when a player might do some fancy footwork, look really good but not actually contribute anything towards the overall game (Cristiano Rolando?).  Looks good, but it's useless.  This in contrast to players like Zidane or Bergkamp who looked good AND decided games.  The phrase is simply a reminder that looking good does not increase the value of everything.

But your comment that "Upper management thinks anyone can do this job" is EXACTLY what I'm getting at.  If "Upper management" is the one who decides to outsource then our helping may actually play a role in a project which we might otherwise end up with being outsourced because they get impressed much too easily.  Of course those receiving the project may be well below our level of skill, but try making "upper management" realise that's going to cost them more in the long run.....

Shane.

[tbob]

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@Intaris wrote:

Tbob,

I didn't mean to take a swipe at art as a whole but the phrase refers to something which, while admittedly aesthetic, has no financial benefit to anyone.  This is, as you have pointed out, not representative of all art but is merely a sub-set of it.

An example of the usage of this phrase would be in soccer when a player might do some fancy footwork, look really good but not actually contribute anything towards the overall game (Cristiano Rolando?).  Looks good, but it's useless.  This in contrast to players like Zidane or Bergkamp who looked good AND decided games.  The phrase is simply a reminder that looking good does not increase the value of everything.

But your comment that "Upper management thinks anyone can do this job" is EXACTLY what I'm getting at.  If "Upper management" is the one who decides to outsource then our helping may actually play a role in a project which we might otherwise end up with being outsourced because they get impressed much too easily.  Of course those receiving the project may be well below our level of skill, but try making "upper management" realise that's going to cost them more in the long run.....

Shane.

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No offense taken on the art thing (I'm a musician, I write songs, and I consider myself an artist in that respect).  I knew you were specifically speaking about paintings and such.

You last paragraph is one that I wholeheartedly agree with.  It is a crying shame.  However, I will continue to help others here, even if it means that I'm cutting my own throat a little.  I really don't think my generosity will affect anything to any significant degree.  If I did, I wouldn't do it anymore.

[Darin.K]

Politics and religion I am not going to touch with a ten-foot pole, but sports is another matter. You are right Shane, Zidane has certainly "decided" a few games...

[Ben]

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@Darin.K wrote:
Politics and religion I am not going to touch with a ten-foot pole, but sports is another matter. You are right Shane, Zidane has certainly "decided" a few games...

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I have been told I should avoid those topics but I seldom do. Much of my spare time is spent pondering those subjects and whenever I find an oppertunity, it slips out. I can't recall ever falling asleep during a discusion of either. Although, I will occationally nod-off even during a Steelers game. Well that is who I am.

Ben

[Ray.R]

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@Ben wrote:

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@Darin.K wrote:
Politics and religion I am not going to touch with a ten-foot pole...

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I'm constantly in trouble for having ... euh... liberal views on both subjects.  Not saying that I'm a Liberal....  not much of anything actually..  😉

LOL!

[Ben]

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@Ray.R wrote:

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@Ben wrote:

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@Darin.K wrote:
Politics and religion I am not going to touch with a ten-foot pole...

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I'm constantly in trouble for having ... euh... liberal views on both subjects.  Not saying that I'm a Liberal....  not much of anything actually..  😉

LOL!

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