topic Re: RAR files. Why? in BreakPoint

RAR files. Why?

PaulG. — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:23:06 GMT

Or any other non-zip compression utility for that matter ... Once in a great while somebody makes a (expletive here) rar file I have to deal with. I don't care if it's 1 psec faster than zip compressing a 1G image file. I can go 6 months without ever seeing one. It's so rarely used, again I ask: why?

Re: RAR files. Why?

RavensFan — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:56:10 GMT

Yeah. That is annoying. Or when they post 7z files.

I don't care if 7zip is a better file compression utility. I don't want to have to download it to my PC. Zip format is the defacto standard. Even Microsoft built it into windows so you can just double click on a zip file and will treat is like a regular folder.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Hooovahh — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:11:22 GMT

You won't find me posting RAR or 7z files on the forums...but...

MPEG was the defacto standard for video files, doesn't make it the best choice. MP3 was the defacto standard for audio (with 64K claiming CD quality), doesn't make it the best choice.

And what about when you need to split an archive, or file into multiple files where each one is less than some size. If I am emailing some EXE that is 20MB and the limit on a single attachment is 10MB, I can use 7zip to break that archive up into multiple zips, or rars, or 7zips.

Basically what I'm getting at is in the industry I've been working in 7zip (the program not the archive) is the defacto standard, and is installed on every computer in the office. So I don't really care what archive format it is in.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Sam_Sharp — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:22:17 GMT

I was curious to find out why other file archiving standards were created - it looks like RAR has some features that make it better over zip files (apart from compatibility/proprietary-ness) - ZIP has a 2GB file size limit whereas it's almost unlimited in RAR, the support for multivolume archives as well as the ability to reconstruct broken archives (apparently). Of course...when servers/disks/networks were smaller/slower - the better compression definitely helps.

Not saying your point is invalid - but I was curious to see if there was a sensible reason behind it.

Re: RAR files. Why?

crossrulz — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:23:43 GMT

@Hooovahh wrote:
Basically what I'm getting at is in the industry I've been working in 7zip (the program not the archive) is the defacto standard, and is installed on every computer in the office. So I don't really care what archive format it is in.

I started using 7zip at my last company and never turned back. It is way better than the WinZip I had to use at the company before that. Yes, I still find it annoying when people post 7z or RAR files, but it does not really slow me down. Microsoft chose to use the zip compression standard, so that is what people should use for compatibility reasons. But that is just one man's opinion.

Re: RAR files. Why?

altenbach — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:38:08 GMT

I still prefer *.tar 😄

Yes, zip should be used as compressed file format, but the choice of tool can still differ. I use 7zip to compress large hierarchies into zip format because it is orders of magnitude faster that the windows built-in function on my 32 core machine. For small files, it does not matter.

(Also, if you have 7zip installed, you can open anything else, incl. rar. I often use it to extract *.iso files.)

Re: RAR files. Why?

Hooovahh — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 18:07:02 GMT

@altenbach wrote:
Also, if you have 7zip installed, you can open anything else, incl. rar. I often use it to extract *.iso files.

I found this very useful in the past too, but I think starting in Windows 8 you can right click an ISO and mount it.

Re: RAR files. Why?

PaulG. — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:22:30 GMT

My IT guy told me to just buy Winzip so I wouldn't have to hassle with the different formats anymore. I understand the need, but very seldom needed from where I sit. So now I have a registered copy of Winzip. Whoopdeedoo. I just hate the idea of spending $50 on something I might use 1-2x a year.

Re: RAR files. Why?

altenbach — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:32:23 GMT

@PaulG. wrote:
My IT guy told me to just buy Winzip so I wouldn't have to hassle with the different formats anymore...

Hmmm....

Re: RAR files. Why?

crossrulz — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:34:11 GMT

@PaulG. wrote:
I just hate the idea of spending $50 on something I might use 1-2x a year.

Especially since you can get 7Zip for FREE! That is unless your IT people are completely against open source applications.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Hooovahh — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:46:11 GMT

@PaulG. wrote:
My IT guy told me to just buy Winzip

With this one statement I can tell you I wouldn't want that person to be in my IT department. Also for fun I googled who buys winzip and this was the first result.

It's like who would every buy a piece of software for archives when 7-zip does it the best and for free? Does anyone ever pay for a program that plays video files, or do people just use VLC because it's free and awesome? What about video encoding, why pay money when Handbrake or Super does it better than software you pay for. I'm not trying to sound snarky (but yeah I might be giving that vibe) I just had never heard of anyone actually paying for Winzip, let alone anyone recommend pay for Winzip.

Re: RAR files. Why?

crossrulz — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:58:59 GMT

@Hooovahh wrote:
It's like who would every buy a piece of software for archives when 7-zip does it the best and for free?

I worked for a company for 8 years that had a winzip company license. I think they were allowed 1000 seats or something rediculous like that. They were very much against open source and EVERYTHING had to be OKed by IT. For some reason, I actually made a library for using the command line for WinZip (extra free install to enable the command line interface). It worked well. Never did port it over to work with my OOP setup I made for 7-Zip (which I made since the built in LabVIEW zip VIs are SLOOOOOOOOOOOW).

Re: RAR files. Why?

Sam_Sharp — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:40:40 GMT

@crossrulz wrote:
@PaulG. wrote:
I just hate the idea of spending $50 on something I might use 1-2x a year.
Especially since you can get 7Zip for FREE! That is unless your IT people are completely against open source applications.

Surprisingly...quite a few are. When you pay for an application, you expect a level of support that comes with it - if it's free, you're pretty much on your own! Imagine how much money could be saved if companies switched over to open source applications (e.g. OpenOffice etc. etc.).

I've just started using DesignSpark which is a free (but not open source) Schematic/PCB design tool - everyone keeps looking over my shoulder saying that it's pretty similar to the package that they use that costs £1000s.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Hooovahh — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:02:04 GMT

Sam_Sharp wrote
Surprisingly...quite a few are. When you pay for an application, you expect a level of support that comes with it - if it's free, you're pretty much on your own!

I don't mean to make this into an open source discussion, but I totally get where you are coming from. It's just what kind of support do you need from an archive program? I'm not saying compression is always simple, but when compared to something like an office suite, with all kinds of possible network, and domain integration issues, it makes compressing and uncompressing files seem trivial. I'm not close minded when it comes to closed software, but it sounds like that IT was close minded when it came to open software.

@Sam_Sharp wrote:
I've just started using DesignSpark which is a free (but not open source) Schematic/PCB design tool - everyone keeps looking over my shoulder saying that it's pretty similar to the package that they use that costs £1000s.

How does Ultiboard stand up? Probably only an attractive tool if you are an Alliance Member.

Re: RAR files. Why?

PaulG. — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:53:53 GMT

@Hooovahh wrote:
With this one statement I can tell you I wouldn't want that person to be in my IT department. Also for fun I googled who buys winzip and this was the first result.

My IT guys are solid. 7Zip was his idea. Winzip was mine. I'm not a big fan of using open source anything in a commercial environment. As said later in this thread when you pay for something you expect a certain level of support. I agree.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Ben — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:55:31 GMT

@Hooovahh wrote:
@PaulG. wrote:
My IT guy told me to just buy Winzip
With this one statement I can tell you I wouldn't want that person to be in my IT department. Also for fun I googled who buys winzip and this was the first result.

It's like who would every buy a piece of software for archives when 7-zip does it the best and for free? Does anyone ever pay for a program that plays video files, or do people just use VLC because it's free and awesome? What about video encoding, why pay money when Handbrake or Super does it better than software you pay for. I'm not trying to sound snarky (but yeah I might be giving that vibe) I just had never heard of anyone actually paying for Winzip, let alone anyone recommend pay for Winzip.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

About 17 years ago I paid for a license. It was good idea at the time (but do not ask me why... it was a long time ago) Maybe becuase it was easier to transport a stack of floppies than carrying my tower back and forth from work to home. My neighbor called the tower "my litle buddy" becuase I would buckle it into the front seat when I departed for work in the mornings.

I still get e-mails from Winzip letting me know about updates and new features.

So YOU my dear sir Hooovahh can no longer claim that you never heard of anyone actually paying for Winzip.

Ben

Re: RAR files. Why?

Sam_Sharp — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:41:43 GMT

@Hooovahh wrote:

@Sam_Sharp wrote:
I've just started using DesignSpark which is a free (but not open source) Schematic/PCB design tool - everyone keeps looking over my shoulder saying that it's pretty similar to the package that they use that costs £1000s.
How does Ultiboard stand up? Probably only an attractive tool if you are an Alliance Member.

We currently have an enterprise agreement at work so we have licenses for Multisim/Ultiboard - never used it though. I decided to pick up DesignSpark because I wanted something that I can use for free whenever/wherever (i.e. even without access to a license for home use) - plus, because it's an RS-sponsored/sanctioned tool, it makes ordering components from them super easy. So I could have chosen between that, Multisim/Ultiboard and Altium...but I deliberately decided to go with something that was free. Only just started getting into some PCB layout in the last few months - it's just like LabVIEW (connecting wires) but you have to wait a few weeks before you can hit the 'run' button 😄 The auto-clean up (route) option is just as useless! 😄

Re: RAR files. Why?

Hooovahh — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:09:14 GMT

@PaulG. wrote:
My IT guys are solid. 7Zip was his idea. Winzip was mine.

I see well then let me revise my statement:

I'm not close minded when it comes to closed software, but it sounds like ~~that IT~~ PaulG ~~was~~ is close minded when it came to open software.

I just know when it comes to archives, playing videos, and encoding videos, I have never needed to call up support from 7-zip, VLC, or Handbrake. It's a good think because I can't, but I haven't needed to yet.

Oh and apparently 7-zip was first released in 1999, you probably bought Winzip just as 7-zip was being released. Of course that first release could have been crap I have no idea.

Re: RAR files. Why?

Darin.K — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:57:08 GMT

When faced with dilemmas such as WinZIP/7-zip I usually do this:

Rolled my own in pure G. No real desire to add RAR to my list of supported formats, not even to wrap the free command line tool for extraction.

Re: RAR files. Why?

altenbach — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:38:46 GMT

There is a Wikipedia page comparing compression programs and wizip is definitely the oldest, I.e. the first GUI to the original PKZIP. Nowadays zip support is built into the OS and available disk space and Internet speeds makes compression almost irrelevant. Downloading is often faster than unzipping. 😮

For a while I was hosting my programs on Google sites with a 20MB file size limit, and at one point they grew slightly larger. I could get the size below the limit by using some fancy 7zip options, but some resulting zip files failed to open using the OS tools.
For full compatibility, I stick to the OS built-in stuff.