College Degree

[P@Anand]

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@Ray.R wrote:

Steve,

That being said...  If you want to get a degree, then I recommend you do so.  But do it for you.  Not for any other expectation.

Just be yourself.  Your life experience is worth something.  If you want to go to Space-X, give it a try.  Tell them to check your abilities on this forum.  Just be ready to move if you do not live in California..  Let life surprise you.  Appreciate what you are...  You are a very good programmer (in LabVIEW).  You should be proud of that.  I'm sure you are good / excellent at many things.  You probably know more than many people who have (or claim to have) degrees.

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Fantastic line Ray.R and this kind of attitude in people is very less and this is the one I always wanted to have and I am quite achieving it.

Coming to my case: When I complete my Bachelors degree I was blind about going to a Job. Eventhough I completed in Physics I have never thought I would get a Job in that in fact I was prepared to go for a telecommunication Marketting ( Totally irrelevant to my studies ).

Then I got a golden oppurtiunity of getting admission in Madurai Kamaraj University ( I feel proud to say ) for my Masters in Electronics and Instrumentation. Here I got the spark of my life which turned me towards engineering and then onwards I was always working with Electronics and I started to love it at that point only I came to know about LabVIEW and started to work in various fucntions.

Here is my post with different Alias when I was doing Masters

So for me my education gave me the right path for my life and till now I never hated my work even if I am overloaded I never bothered.

For holding our application right on top Yes a degree is required ( Am very young to give tips to you thats why I was telling about myself )

[Ray.R]

A good book to read is "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance".

That will explain it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance

[LV_Pro]

I say, go for it. It will not guarantee a job, but a lot of H.R. Departments will not even look at a resume without a degree. I personally had an ethical dilemma a few years ago when I was filling out the questionnaire for my High School 25th reunion, do I say I have my degree in Engineering or not, since I don't actually graduate until the weekend following the reunion.  It was a long, hard road, glad I did it. It has allowed me a lot more opportunities, where having "the piece of paper" was critical. In fact, with the latest project I actually had to go to my university and request a copy, could find my original (probably in a box that my ex nicely packed for me!)

[crossrulz]

I definately say go for it.  I will admit that I have not been in your situation.  I went straight to college from High School and completed on schedule.  I was lucky enough to be hired by the company I co-oped with.  They actually hired me on before I graduated, but I couldn't be an engineer until I got that magic piece of paper a year later.  I recently finished my master's in engineering and that has opened up doors for me (along with my CLA).

But a word of caution from observation and personal experience: do not expect your current company to promote you once you do complete your degree.  I have seen many people leave as soon as they get their degree simply because the company wants to keep them in their current role.  My current company did nothing for me when I got my master's.  Their loss.  I'm going to work for an NI Alliance Patner in a couple of weeks.

[GregFreeman]

Best of Luck! I do want to leave you with a quote from someone I went to college with:

"An education does not come from what they teach you, it comes from what you learn." - Glen Bradford.

[tbob]

Here is my story, very similar:

When I first went to college after high school, I farted around and didn't graduate.  I got tired of being broke so I got a minimum wage job.  But I was always interested in electronics.  I learned how to wire houses and did that for a while.  But I was still fascinated by electronics, particularly radios.  I took a home study course in electronics where part of the course was to build your own o-scope, DMM, and finally a TV.  They were all Heathkit products, so I didn't have to do any design, but I did solder the components to the board and I got to understand the schematics and all that stuff.

One day, I went to a local Motorola service shop and asked for a job, telling them about my electronics home study program.  They took a chance an hired me.  I learned how to repair two-way radio equipment, pagers, old time car telephones, and such mostly on the job.  I had a very good teacher who was the top technician.  He recieved his training in the Army.  Within a few years, the top tech moved into management and I became the top tech.  I then moved on to learn microwave equipment as used by phone companies.  After doing that for several years, I was at top pay and at the top position, I realized I had no chance for advancement.  I wanted to grow.  After working with an engineering firm who installed new microwave equipment, I realized that I had what it takes to be an engineer.  That is when I decided to go back to college.  I planned on going back full time so I quit my job.  Boy was I told what a huge mistake I was making.  I didn't let that stop me.

I got a student loan, a Pell Grant, a college loan, and two part time jobs.  One of my part time jobs was repairing test equipment for the college's Forestry dept.  The other was doing stereo and TV repair in my apartment, I had put an ad in the school newspaper and recieved steady work.  Having to learn all of that math and theory stuff was very difficult.  Having had electronic experience, I knew a lot of this was junk I would never use again.  But I was determined and I stuck it out (good advice by Rush - "Stick It Out").  I went to school during the summer months and managed to graduate in 3 years.  My previouis college courses counted so it made it possible to finish in 3 years.  I was so glad to get that part over with.

I got my first engineering job at AT&T in the plant engineering dept.  My starting salary was the same as the top pay I was getting as a repair tech.  Now I had lots of headroom to grow.  I was the head planner and administrator for a new local area network system.  But my heart was still in repairing and testing, so after a year or so, I moved into a Test Engineering position.  I've been a test enginner for over 25 years now and I am so glad that I decided to take that chance way back then.  I sure would love to see all those people who told me what a huge mistake I was making.

So my advice to anyone who is thinking about getting a degree, go fo rit, no matter how old you are.  That piece of paper is definitely worth it.  Like others have said, that diploma alone is worth more than the knowledge you gain in college.

[JÞB]

Steve, I commend you on your decision!  But, as has been stated, do it for you not for a job.

There are many simillarities in our backgrounds.  After recieving a "150 in 1 electronics projects' at a tender age and a SAIL course on electronics in 5th grade I was set up to be a science geek for life.  I did somewhat better than you in High School and could have graduated a year early.  I loaded up for Sr. year (Free public education, and the school was nationally recognized for excellence.) and took all the advanced math science and programming (Pascal that year) I could.  I was rewarded with a sweet scholarship to Drake after perfoming well on their national physics exam.  Unfortunatly books and tuition were not enough to allow me to take advantage of the campus and the local community collage offered me a math tutoring position when I took their math placement exam (Correcting it with proofs where the exam was in error.)

With traditional educational avenues blocked I was uncertain of my future until I saw that year's blockbuster movie Top Gun with a buddy.  I became a US Navy ET (Electronics Technician) and the training school is very impressive.  You can claim a BS in electronics maintainence equivallency on that training alone.  I have and never failed to demonstrate it but, it is not a sheepskin and yes many large companies refuse to hire non-degreed engineers as a corporate policy.  A fact that led me to take a volluntary severance package at one employer- I had hit the ceiling of where a "Technician" could go and about as far with LabVIEW as the company needed and I really wanted to get better and do more with LabVIEW.  A Peek at my profile page may give you some insight as to the timing of this action.

Still no degree but I haven't applied for a possition that did not "Require" one in the last 5 years.  (Full Disclosure: I am considering a BS in Software Engineering)

Reputation also plays a large factor in hiring discisions. 

[Side story:

Last Monday the 21st I made it quietly known I was looking.  On Tuesday resumes started hitting Hiring Manager's desks and I even had an interview by Friday at a great company with a good fit.  I was also paid the high complement of an immidiate offer on reputation alone - not even a phone interview.

I'm Back Off the Market]

[pallen]

Great post Steve.  A topic that has been on my own mind for some time as well. 

Although I've worked with electronics in general for more than twenty years and have now nearly 15 with industrial automation, there's no ring on my pinky finger.  ( Canadian engineers typically sport their iron rings they receive at graduation ) I do have a college education, and I did very well in the technologist course I took.  But it's just not the same thing.

I've also felt frustration when I've looked at potentially interesting positions that I would otherwise be well qualified for, and found they're out of my reach because I don't have an engineering degree. 

I'm still uncertain as to whether I'll pursue a degree.  It's not lost on me that doing so would require a significant investment of my time.  Time that could be spent learning specific things that interest me personally, or things that would translate into immediate monetary gains. 

It's a tricky decision. 

I wish you all the best with it!

[JÞB]

Now that I have a bit more time I would like to expand on my earlier comments with some advice for non-degreed LabVIEW developers seeking employment.  (Just my experience- but I do do this for a living.  Take it however you wish)

• LabVIEW is still seen as a "test and measurement" tool- learn test and measurment. If you can operate an O'Scope you are right in the zone.  Can you automate that measurement?   If so you have marketable skills!   You know your basic design patterns for LabVIEW - learn the "Classes" of Instrument drivers.   IVI-C, -COM, "Plug-n-Play" Project style..... What is a SFP?  Test is still the bread and butter of LabVIEW.  The IDN saves a ton of developer time.  A gizmo without a driver costs x$ + your time to read the manual and develop a driver.  I don't use that device unless I am paid to write user prompts to "press button A" Often subject to human error.
• I do frequently hear challenges like "Well we tried a LabVIEW project before and it failed for...."  Well, I say that there are many things you can do with LabVIEW....It is unfortunate that one of the least accomplished of these things is to write "software."  Its easy to write "functional code" with LabVIEW - easier than in any other language I've been exposed to but, still to write software that is good you need an understanding of what software is.  [MORE FULL DISCLOSURE: I am learning software, I know TEST]  You, as LabVIEW Developers are well marketed knowing some of each.
• HR reps are there to throw out your resume so that only the "Qualified" candidates make it to the Hiring Manager.  "BS Required" means toss it in the trash if there is no sheepskin attached.  BUT, the HR department generated the form the HM filled out (Select educational level <x,y,z>)  You need to get your resme to the Hiring Manager and the HR rep WILL block it unless every box on the checklist has ink.  The HM may or may not know about NI LabVIEW Certification.  Networking is the key!
• Networking: LabVIEW users groups are are great way to become known,  NI PUBLISHES searchable lists of certified LabVIEW Professionals, feel free to LINK to the short list containing your name and contact info on your resume or cover letter.  YOUR Local NI Sales team is the best in the world (Well, actually MINE IS the best) But get to know them.  Local recruiters know nearly nothing about LabVIEW (or any possition they are trying to fill) educate them on LabVIEW Certifications - Then, the recruiters can educate the HR reps and usually get your resume to the HM - sometimes with questions to the HM's about like "Do you really need the BS or do you want a great LabVIEW developer?"

Off my soap box-

[Rodéric]

Can't agree more with Jeff, networking is the key!

Many LabVIEW programmers are hired on reputation/recommandation