Best reasonable machine vision camera?

[visionmotion]

Looking for a second hand unit, must have excellent compatibility with LB Vision/MAX..

Lots of camera link 1k Baslers and then some newer aces and runners (gig, usb 3, and camera link) on the bay in the $50-$500 range. The slower frame rate basler 5MP ace is enticing (don't need a high frame rate, would like better res).

I understand needing a frame grabber for CameraLink cameras, but do you need a special NI, or comparable USB 3.0 of gigE card.. or would any USB 3.0 (or GigE) card work?

The application is agriculture inspection post-harvest, particularly leaf identification, flower identification, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[ChrisStrykesAgain]

visionmotion,

I'm glad to hear you are interested in our vision products! It sounds as if you have a pretty good grasp on the available technologies. For industrial applications I typically recommend GigE Vision due to its ease of installation. (If using PoE, all you need to run is a single ethernet cable, which can be quite long.) 

To answer your specific questions, however, USB3 Vision and GigE Vision cameras do not required dedicated NI framegrabbers, but there are some compelling reasons for buying them.

Both USB3 and GigE Vision require IMAQdx, which is a paid driver and part of our Vision Acquisition Software package. VAS can be purchased on it's own, but it is also bundled with our USB3 and GigE Vision framegrabbers, which may be a more economical option.

Another advantage is that our GigE Vision framegrabbers are designed to work with our High Performance GigE Vision driver. The HP GEV driver reduces network overhead and uses a stack designed for GigE Vision. It also enables firewall traversal, which can be very useful. GigE Vision uses dynamic port allocation (port hopping), and configuring a firewall to allow it to pass through properly is very difficult. Firewall traversal allows the GigE Vision traffic to avoid the firewall completely.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to let me know and I'll gladly assist.

[JonG11111]

Hi Ollies,

Thank you very much for the reply!

I have IMAQdx working with my eval Vision Dev package-- guessing the IMAQdx must be eval too?

The application actually involves objects that can differ in size greatly-- on the order of +/- 20mm in depth.  For this reason, I assume I need an auto-focus unit?

For this project, more of a proof-of-concept, I don't need high frame-rates, but a sharp image would be beneficial.  My top contender is currently the 'Imaging Source' AFU130-L53, a 13MP CMOS USB 2.0 unit with an integrated auto-focus lens (f5.8mm, MOD:10cm).  The res and MOD are right for the app, but I'm not sure how great the image would be with the integrated lens?  It's a cheaper camera, for sure.

Any thoughts?  The objects are agricultural, if that helps!

Thanks again!

[JonG11111]

Also this more traditional 5MP M12 lens CMOS auto-focus unit: http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/autofocus-cameras/usb-cmos-color/dfkafuj003m12/

I understand both are very low FR (as low as 1fps), though this is ok for the prototype.

[BlueCheese]

If your goal is to use the camera with NI software, I would advise against that Imaging Source camera you linked to. It isn't using the USB3 Vision standard and thus is not natively supported by IMAQdx. The vendor provides their own LabVIEW interface (of which I have no experience with) but you will not be able to use any other NI tools MAX, Vision Assistant, Vision Builder AI, to help you use your camera. You may be able to use their camera in these tools and IMAQdx via a DirectShow filter driver (if they provide one), but support for industrial cameras via this mechanism is a bit spotty since many features of the cameras simply are not part of the generic feature set exposed by DirectShow. Finally, you would lose any ability to transition your application to an NI embedded system like a Compact Rio or Compact Vision system, since the vendor drivers can't run there. With so many good USB3 Vision and GigE Vision cameras from many vendors, I'm sure you can find one at a reasonable price.

[visionmotion]

Hi BlueCheese,

Thanks for the reply. Would I not be able to use IMAQ just as I would a webcam?

I've been researching quite a bit as you can probably tell, and prices are relatively high-- my budget for the camera is ~$500.

I have no illusions of my software or camera selection being ported to the final product-- this is strictly a proto development and will never see something like Compact Rio or a smart camera, etc!

[visionmotion]

Sorry about the multiple usernames... guess I had an old NI acct on my desktop after all!

[visionmotion]

Do you have any suggestions for a USB 3.0 unit with auto focus in the ~$500 vicinity?

[BlueCheese]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Would I not be able to use IMAQ just as I would a webcam?". Do you mean using an industrial camera as a webcam or a webcam as an industrial camera? Generally these are both aimed at different markets and the software support looks quite a bit different.

Regarding finding the right product to fit your requirements (autofocus and <$500), I suspect that will be a bit harder. I'm not aware of any specific products that hit those requirements and are also compatible with some of the common machine vision interface standards today. One you might want to look at is the IDS uEyE XC. While I haven't used this product directly, one perceived advantage is that it claims UVC Video Class standard comaptibility, which means you might be able to use it as a webcam with IMAQdx without any IDS-provided drivers needing to be installed (in theory). PixelLINK also has some low-cost cameras with autofocus, but I'm not sure if any of those currently support USB3 Vision either.

[visionmotion]

Hi BlueCheese,

Thank you for your continued help-- I've seen vision-related posts by you dating back several years, so it's obvious you know your stuff!

I believe the IDS 13MP uEyE is very similar to the Imaging Source unit I've been looking at.  If you take a glance at this refrence, it looks like there are VIs to allow for use of any IMAQ functions for Imaging Source: http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/support/documentation/icextlvi/gettingstarted.htm

If I could, I would like to avoid this, but I believe I need an AF camera, and have little to no interest in implementing software controlled AF (with a motorized lens, etc).

Could you point me to any AF camera that is USB3.0-Vision and itimately compatible with LV?  I have not seen any units from Basler, nor several other vendors, that looked intended for machine vision (rather than security IP cameras, etc).

Really appreciate it!