LabVIEW Tech Preview Opinion

[Jacobson-ni]

Roger,

I don't work on our dev team but if we are able to come up with a clear list of feedback on this thread I would be glad to pass it on to them.

[User002]

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@Jacobson-ni wrote:

Roger,

I don't work on our dev team but if we are able to come up with a clear list of feedback on this thread I would be glad to pass it on to them.

1. Watch the videos and could the dev team give their opinion about LV & UE?
2. Is there any merit in my opinions about NI being a quite poor SW dev. org.?
3. How does NI technology stack up against contemporary SW dev environments?
4. Has NI considered/talked with people within the game engine industry?
5. Why do we get a stretch of 10 years of almost identical LV releases?
6. Why does the Tech Preview seem to merely be a polished variant of what we have today? Who wanted that beside the usual suspects?
7. Why is the programming capabilities of LV very bare bones? Clearly many LV devs write quite sophisticated stuff and the language should reflect this.
8. How about having more ways of visualizing the program than just the BD. For example by using layers and other dimensions in the diagrams?
9. Why not have a look into how to work with well-equipped SW teams who clearly can ship some seriously competent dev environments and collaborate with them just like NI did with the LV FPGA and XILINX tool chains.
10. How about cutting out that sect stuff going on? It's 2016 now, and it's getting a bit old.

That's about it for the moment. 

Roger

[Jacobson-ni]

Thanks for the reply Roger, I'm sure Hooovahh will be happy now that he has a numbered list.

I'm meeting with some of the team tomorrow for other reasons but I'll make sure to bring this up.

[User002]

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@Jacobson-ni wrote:

Thanks for the reply Roger, I'm sure Hooovahh will be happy now that he has a numbered list.

I'm meeting with some of the team tomorrow for other reasons but I'll make sure to bring this up.

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You're welcome, feel free to extend the list! 

And I think we are all interested in a better LabVIEW. Most of us enjoy programming in it and for many livelihoods also depends on it.

But that Tech Demo, it was just "oh come on, was that all"? Have you guys seriously been at it for almost 10 years and nothing more to show for? There must be some serious technical issues or other problems in the dev process. And given the generally quite poor SW quality of NI (dev. env. specially), I'm not too surprised.

No hard feelings against Hooovahh and tst. 

Just a bit of my harsh rhetoric going on. 

Roger

[Intaris]

1. Maybe they will.

2. No idea.  Opinions come cheap.

3. Financially it's doing well.  It's a niche product.

4. Don't see why they would, games and general software development are not the same thing.

5. Because it works.  How much has visual studio changed in the last 10 years?

6. Because it works.  It's being tweaked not radically overhauled.

7. I don't understand what you mean here.  Care to elaborate?

8. I have heard that NI has a patent on "3D" diagrams, perhaps this is going in that direction.  I know they're making the next version more extendable.

9. Who says they didn't?

10. There's no sect stuff going on.  It's all in your mind.  Your opinions are no more or less valid than my own (or Hoovaahs, or Tsts).

But really, get in touch with someone with LV R&D contacts and post some serious questions.  There is some truth in your points, but your tone is way off the scale.  Calm down, focus and you might actually get your points across instead of just annoying everyone who's trying to engage with you.

Shane

[User002]

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@Intaris wrote:

Please refrain from derailing a thread that was back on the rails. It's a bit, you know - a bit silly. There are other threads where you can spread your "wisdom".

[Bob_Schor]

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@User002 wrote:

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Please refrain from derailing a thread that was back on the rails. It's a bit, you know - a bit silly. There are other threads where you can spread your "wisdom". 

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The Original Post raised a number of issues/questions, and there have been several replies that attempted to respond to what we perceived as your concerns.  You did post on the Forum, after all, and asked questions, apparently inviting a dialogue, but rather than respond to the posts as though we were colleagues, equally long-time LabVIEW Users (except, perhaps, Jacobson, who offered to bring your concerns to the NI Developers, after all), you appear to be commenting mostly on the character and motives of your fellow Forum members.  This doesn't seem helpful to advancing this discussion.

I, too, have been using LabVIEW for 10 years.  I originally started working on a Project developed (and "frozen into") LabVIEW 7.0, but 10 years ago, LabVIEW 8.2 was introduced.  To my mind, a lot of useful and beneficial features have been introduced that simplified LabVIEW development, made it easier for "newbies" to get started, extended/expanded the Programming Paradigm, and significantly increased the speed and functionality of the developed code.  Some key features (by no means an exhaustive list) include:

• LabVIEW Project
• Network Streams
• Express VIs (though I dislike some of them, but that's my opinion and my right ...)
• LVOOP (a biggie!) and its extensions (such as Actor Framework)
• Channel Wires (my personal favorite, much enhanced and fully available in LabVIEW 2016)

From what I understand about the Tech Preview, this represents a "sneak peak" at some ideas NI is trying to develop to enhance the LabVIEW Experience, something that I think you would want.  As I understand it, NI does not intend to "abandon" (let's call it) "Traditional LabVIEW" during this process, but is inviting feedback and comments (including, I presume, "I don't like what you are doing because ...").

I'm sure that you realize that a civil tone and cogent arguments will be much more effective in getting your points taken seriously than what are perceived (whether or not this is your intent is not as material as how we perceive it) as attacks or belittlement of those replying to your Post (there is the Reply button, after all).  If you think a Reply is irrelevant, a better strategy, in my opinion, is to simply ignore it.

Bob Schor

[I joined this discussion late, hence this reply is meant to cover several topics raised in multiple earlier posts by the Original Poster]

[User002]

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Yes, and I refuted all of those points raised. You see, this is discussion forum, I expect to have a somehow balanced discussion. Not having the cavalry galloping here and schooling me on forum etiquette in every, single, post. It ends up as a meaningless meta discussion which further diverts the attention from the problems as I perceive them with NI software in general and specially Tech Preview and LabVIEW in patricular. Which is by the way a common theme of these blathering replies, by the forum dwellers, to divert concerned LabVIEW users from the problems and direct the discussion toward pointless drivel about how to conduct a discussion, isn't it? Congratulations Bob, hereby you, too, won one internetz for a successful thread derailment! 

I am not judging your opinion and gratitude towards those minor increments in LabVIEW, but do me a favor and stick those in your personal little thread of LabVIEW sycophantism and fanboyism. But again, this thread is regarding my opinion of the Tech Preview. Is it that difficult to wrap the collective heads of yours around. It truly must be a sect we are dealing with, or, how much do they pay you for these forum policing "patrols"? $1 per reply perhaps, but man that would be just too cheap, really guys, really?  

If my opinion regarding Tech Preview somehow unsettles you, then perhaps there is something indeed that rattles your can? We all know it's true, right? Can't you feel the rancid smell of decomposition and general brown nosery in this thread surrounding your "altruistic" "work" here now?

[Intaris]

I've answered your points 1 to 10 to the best of my ability.  I'm not passing on any "wisdom" but information.  Don't you know the difference?

If you think my directly responding to questions you ask as derailement then I think we're done here.

If you learn to discuss these things like an adult, maybe people will listen to your actual points.  I've tried to in the past, I'm trying to now but you're making it very difficult.

Please, if you feel you have a point to make (and somewhere in there there ARE valid points), don't drown out your message in drivel, memes and petty argumentation.  A smidgen of self-control works wonders when you're attempting to engage with others.  It's just how the world works.  Feel free to ignore me or post some snarky response, it's completely your choice but it's also my choice to return the favour.

I have a full-time job, my wife has a full-time job, I have two kids in school, I travel over 2 hours a day to and from work.  I have better things to do with my time than put up with someone who feels that they're "the one" who sees what everyone else doesn't just because the rest of us aren't running around shouting and screaming.  Try listening to what people are telling you and you might -gasp- learn something.

What's it going to be?

[User002]

Shane,

I know you are vested into this, but man, do yourself a favour and be a little objective on what you perceive as your reality and what is going on elswhere in the SW industry.

Check out those vids at the two first posts on this thread and comment on them.

Otherwise, keep the good work going. 

Over and out.