My definition of a good programmer:

[SteveChandler]

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@Otoro2 wrote:

Let me say "Software design is software design" does not translate to actually "good programmers"

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What is your definition of a good programmer? What is your definition of diversified skills?

[crossrulz]

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@Otoro2 wrote:

So you can claim what you did in resume but unless you actually bring it on... you are just some guy who talk much but no proof...

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Coding Horror had an excellent article about that.  And that's why you test them in the interview process.

[altenbach]

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@Otoro2 wrote:

I actually interview senior engineers that want to get into the company i work for. 

Let me say "Software design is software design" does not translate to actually "good programmers" Cannot remember how many senior level programmers from multinational company that ends up in "Reject bin" because they claim "Good software design" but in reality break down on interview.

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This post has 0% information content, just platitudes and grandstanding. Why do you waste an entire paragraph if you cannot remember? 😄

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@Otoro2 wrote:

So you can claim what you did in resume but unless you actually bring it on... you are just some guy who talk much but no proof...

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Well, that's why we have certification.

[smercurio_fc]

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@Otoro2 wrote:

So you can claim what you did in resume but unless you actually bring it on... you are just some guy who talk much but no proof...

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Oh, I don't know. Some guys have been known to become CEOs of Yahoo by a certain amount of resume "buffing". At least for a while, anyway.

[Otoro2]

My definition of a good programmer:

1. Someone who have overall understanding of memory usage, algorithm and object oriented design.

2. Have desire to keep updated with new design techniques, such as applying design patterns in it.

3. Have real-world experience in debugging issues (single threaded or multi-threaded). In here i mean he have a methodical way of thinking in pairing down problems and able to quantify the reason behind a problem in production.

4. Knowledge of its preferred Language Domain (i.e if you say c# you should know .Net framework inside out (ASP or Desktop). If you say LabVIEW you should know RT and using NI hardware)

Know those categories are applicable to any Programming Language programmer.

However here comes the real-world reality, suppose you are a company that works in Test and Measurement and serve high demanding client. Would you hire a c# or java  programmer if you know the platform the client is asking is LabVIEW with National Instruments hardware ? I am not talking about large company like NI itself where they have the budget to train people, but a small company. Most of the time you do not have time and money to train someone who have no knowledge of LabVIEW programming to serve your client. I would take an ex-LV engineer or someone with LV knowledge that understand LabVIEW quircks.

Same thing apply to any other programming language out there. Would a company that works mainly in Java domain hire someone from c# domain ? Probably not if there 2 candidates same quaility of "good programmer" but have 2 different language background.

So I am not saying you cannot find good labview programmer out there, there plenty of it. But if you on the side that thinks that knowing LabVIEW is enough, then maybe you are delusional.

Here is the facts: 

Go to indeed.com do search for the following location United States:

1. C# 33,678 jobs

2. Java 75,191 jobs

3. LabVIEW 2146 jobs.

The facts does not lie, the more you DIVERSIFIED your programming language knowledge the better chance you are in getting another job. Of course unless you get to work in management then all the things up there is not applicable 🙂

[JÞB]

. Knowledge of its preferred Language Domain (i.e. if you say c# you should know .Net framework inside out (ASP or Desktop). If you say LabVIEW you should know RT and using NI hardware)

Know those categories are applicable to any Programming Language programmer.

However here comes the real-world reality, suppose you are a company that works in Test and Measurement and serve high demanding client. Would you hire a c# or java  programmer if you know the platform the client is asking is LabVIEW with National Instruments hardware ?

ABSOLUTELY

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As Steve said "Good programming is good programming"  The language does not really matter as much as the understandability of the code when you try to talk about what really IS valuable about software.   Maintainability and extensibility!   The ability of the stakeholders to approach LabVIEW code is high.  They can "See the flow" in a manner that is intuitive.   LabVIEW's approachability is an asset you have overlooked.

Can I state that all LabVIEW code follows good software engineering practices? NO! AND most C++ code I have read does not either! a very few delivered solutions in any language that I have needed to interface with do meet my standards of "Good Software"

This is where certification REALLY shows its worth!  Where are the "Python forums?"  Who is a VB Champion? Where can I find a "Certified JAVA Developer?"  What is a "Questionable" Best practice in software development?  Why did you choose your tools?

I'll stand behind my choice-  and continue to pay the bills by applying that skill. 

- Not Hungry yet! JB

[rolfk]

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@smercurio_fc wrote:

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Oh, I don't know. Some guys have been known to become CEOs of Yahoo by a certain amount of resume "buffing". At least for a while, anyway.

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But nobody cares about that buffing, as long as the results are good! Several sources admit, that if he had been CEO of a successful company, nobody ever would have cared. And in this case it wasn't even about the technical results, despite the fact that the buffing was in fact on technical aspects, or more precise on a technical title, which in the common agreement of the momentary off topic discussion is no proof of technical quality anyways.

Not to talk buffing good, I find it simply wrong, but business has double standards in that respect for sure.

[SteveChandler]

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@Otoro2 wrote:

So I am not saying you cannot find good labview programmer out there, there plenty of it. But if you on the side that thinks that knowing LabVIEW is enough, then maybe you are delusional.

Here is the facts: 

Go to indeed.com do search for the following location United States:

1. C# 33,678 jobs

2. Java 75,191 jobs

3. LabVIEW 2146 jobs.

The facts does not lie, the more you DIVERSIFIED your programming language knowledge the better chance you are in getting another job. Of course unless you get to work in management then all the things up there is not applicable 🙂

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I completely agree that being diversified in knowledge of programming languages is very helpful in finding a job. If you know C#, Java and LabVIEW there are 111,015 possibilities in the list above. The nice thing about being a good LabVIEW programmer is that although there may be fewer jobs out there, the number of LabVIEW programmers trying to fill those positions is also small.

[WayneS1324]

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Otoro2 wrote:

My definition of a good programmer:

4. Knowledge of its preferred Language Domain (i.e if you say c# you should know .Net framework inside out (ASP or Desktop).

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I disagree with this. This is what things like MSDN are for. Part of being a good programmer is the ability to use the resources at your disposal to find the things you dont know.

[JHaas]

I know this thread is years old but I can't help myself with a couple of questions....

Why would someone go thru all of the work to attain a CLA and then turn around and thrash LabVIEW?

Why wouldn't you display the CLA logo in your profile? I sure would if I had a CLA!!