LabVIEW Development on Surface Pro

[Bob_Schor]

I'm interested if anyone (else) has tried LabVIEW Development on a Microsoft Surface Pro with Windows 8.  When I got my Surface, LabVIEW 2012 was one of the first installations that I did.  The Good News is that the installs were quick, the updates were quick, and there were no memorable problems.

However, I am struggling to do development, particularly without a mouse.  I can live with the tiny screen, but I've just spent 4 minutes trying (without success) to connect an array tunnel coming out of a For loop to the Chart indicator sitting right beside it.  Part of the problem is that my "muscle memory", whether to right-click, left-click, click-and-drag, or what, is gone when holding the stylus.  The other is that the point of the stylus obscures the on-screen pointer, making it hard to see if it's an arrow or a spool (of wire).

I do like the "portability" of this machine -- much smaller/lighter than my "normal" laptop.  I am struggling also with Windows 8 (which I find counter-intuitive -- been too long in "classic Windows").

If you've been more successful, I'd be interested in any tips you might have.

Bob Schor

[RTSLVU]

I don't have an answer besides use a mouse and a little commentary...

Touch screens Android and Windows8 are not ready for prime time. I have an Android tablet (not a cheap one either) and over all I hate using it. Even surfing the web on a touch screen is a P.I.T.A. I could not imagine doing any "real work" without a mouse. 

Interesting how new user interfaces are often slower than the old ones. If you are a good typist and know the shortcut keys in Word or Excel a mouse will slow you down, (you should see my wife fly through creating or editing a document in Word without ever touching her mouse) using a touch screen for doing similar work would slow you down compared to using a mouse.

I believe touch screens are really only useful for simple user interfaces designed for repetitive tasks, we have 19 inch touch screens on our ATE systems and Writing LabView intuitive programs for use on a touch screen is easy but using the touch screen to program LabView is an exercise in futility...

[tholecek]

I have run 2012 on my Surface Pro and found the same experience as you.  I don't think there is an easy answer but one thing that has helped a great deal is to use a trackball like the Logitech Trackman.  If you can make this work for you it has the advantage of not needing the roaming space required by a mouse.  This setup has worked well for me.  Without a mouse/trackball though I think it will be a hard road because LabvVIEW is not touch friendly on the development level.

As a side comment, I have been a very early adopter to touch screens on both Tablets and PCs and one thing I have found is that my kids do much better than me using the interface.  I really do think the touch screen technology is quite good, especially with the new Windows 8 tablets, but it is a longer learning curve for us older users.  I think you hit it right on with the "muscle memory" comment.

[Quevvy]

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@Bob_Schor wrote:

However, I am struggling to do development, particularly without a mouse.  I can live with the tiny screen, but I've just spent 4 minutes trying (without success) to connect an array tunnel coming out of a For loop to the Chart indicator sitting right beside it.  Part of the problem is that my "muscle memory", whether to right-click, left-click, click-and-drag, or what, is gone when holding the stylus.  The other is that the point of the stylus obscures the on-screen pointer, making it hard to see if it's an arrow or a spool (of wire).

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You could try selecting the tool yourself in the tools palette. I know the auto-select feature is nice, but if you always have the tools palette open, that could help with the arrow/spool/etc. confusion.

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@Bob_Schor wrote:

I do like the "portability" of this machine -- much smaller/lighter than my "normal" laptop.  I am struggling also with Windows 8 (which I find counter-intuitive -- been too long in "classic Windows").

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I'd be interested in trying LabVIEW on a tablet, but do not currently have the resources… I do have Windows 8 on my laptop (dual-boot with Windows 7), and I can tell that it would be easier to use on the Surface. [But let's not get into a Windows 8 discussion…] I do think that Windows 8 has some good features, but may take a while to shake the feeling of "Classic Windows".

[RTSLVU]

As I had eluded to above, minus the commentary, touch screens are just not there yet as far as positional accuracy.

For use on a touch screen I have to make buttons and switches on the VI panel very large like nearly 3/4 inch by 2 inches to avoid end user frustration. Probably the smallest that can be reliably pressed with minimal frustration would be 1/2 inch square.

Maybe with a very fine stylus you could wire a block diagram or possibly on a large screen at a low resolution you could use your finger.

But having tried it on a 19 inch touch screen with a 1200x1600 resolution wiring a block diagram using my finger is a futile effort.

[tholecek]

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion of the touchscreen technology as I am not sure you have had a chance to work with some of the newest machines.  Having had both a MS Surface Pro and a Samsung Ativ, I really think the technology is better than you have experienced.  I find the touch accuracy is much, much better than 1/2in.  I do agree that when creating UI's for others to use that I would still make the touch inputs larger than the absolute accuracy of the screen for easier use.  Personaly I would stay closer to at least 1/2in square  As an example I am typing this note on the touchscreen keyboard and each key is apx 1/2in x 3/4in.  I find this size very comfortable and accurate.

There is some new technology that you may not be aware of.  Some of the new Win 8 machine are using Wacom's digitizing technology.  Granted this is only for stylus use, but it give the screen ridiculously accuracy.  I don't think a normal user would find one input method to be sufficient for all uses anyhow.  But regarding Labview, I think the keyboard/mouse combination is really the only way to write code on a tablet.  Labview may evolve touch input features in the future but I suspect it won't be a high priority for them.  

In the real world I use the Surface docked with a Keyboard and Monitor when I write code and only use the touch screen for presentations and quick changes.  In my opinion the touchscreen is best used for general use such as email, surfing and Office. One thing that has really impressed me with the tablet is how well MS Office has been optimized for it.  In my personal opinion, MS Onenote on a tablet is about the best tool that I have right now.  It works incredibly well for taking notes and developing ideas.  For me, it has completely eliminated paper.

[caw0063]

Buy a Bluetooth mouse....

[Hooovahh]

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@Quevvy wrote:

You could try selecting the tool yourself in the tools palette. I know the auto-select feature is nice, but if you always have the tools palette open, that could help with the arrow/spool/etc. confusion.

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Or you can turn that auto-tool off for good.  

I haven't used auto-tool on a regular basis ever.  I often found it slowed me down, I knew how many times I needed to hit the tab key, and I could hit it with my left hand, while my mouse moved into position with my right.  By the time my mouse go where it needed the tool I wanted was out.  No need to try to hit the 2 pixel spot to make the tool turn into what I wanted.

But to be honest, converting to using auto-tool is something I've thought about over the years, and probably should force myself to be comfortable with.

[PhillipBrooks]

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@caw0063 wrote:
Buy a Bluetooth mouse....

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I use the Arc Touch Surface Edition and love it.

Snaps flat and fits your pocket.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Arc-Touch-Mouse-Surface-Edition/productID.286866...

[RTSLVU]

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@PhillipBrooks wrote:

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@caw0063 wrote:
Buy aBluetooth mouse....

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I use the Arc Touch Surface Edition and love it.

Snaps flat and fits your pocket.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Arc-Touch-Mouse-Surface-Edition/productID.286866...

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My son had one of those, lasted less than a year before it was falling apart from being repeatedly flattened and curved.

For the price I expected it to last longer, but for the brand I was not supprised.